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  • Training tips for TD / Tour Aotearoa for mere mortals
  • flanagaj
    Free Member

    I have always been one for over analysis. Some folk are lucky in that they have the right genes and seem to be able to just go and blag it and still push out 100 mile days, others like myself struggle with the cumulative fatigue that seems to creep up on me when I do long bike tours.

    What I am trying to deduce is should all of your training rides be just in the zone 2 region and your main goal is to just keep the heart rate as low as possible OR should you do that, but also try and fit in some high intensity spin sessions during the week as well?

    I remember reading a post on here regarding a TD finishers HR stats and someone commented that the rider stayed constantly in zone 2 for the whole race. Is this because anything above zone 2 effort and your body will just not recover overnight for the next day’s mileage?

    The other question is whether it is possible to build up to cycling 100+ days, day in day out or does genetic makeup play a key role? I feel more comfortable doing a hard 3 hour 160 – 165 average HR MTB ride than I am cycling at a snail’s pace to stay in zone 2. I did cycle 1200 miles down the TD last year in 16 days, but towards the end of the trip I was not enjoying it one bit and the mental and physical challenge got the better of me.

    I have a short term memory and feel like I have unfinished business and want to head off at do the TA in Feb 2017. It’s just the memory of the suffering on the TD keeps nagging at me and I don’t want the TA to be a repeat performance.

    My mileage goals for the TA is to average 67 miles / day and complete it in under 30 days.

    Keen to hear from those who have faced the same battle with multi day rides, bitten off more they can chew or eventually cracked the puzzle and now embark on adventures without concerns of mileage / recovery ….

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    40/40/20, Training/Nutrition/Genetics.

    Regarding TD finishers heart rate, it’ll come out overwhelmingly in Z2 as once you are completely utterly gubbed, thats about as high as your HR will go.
    And by keeping HR down before then it prolongs how long you last before reaching that condition.

    Nutrition is something you need to work out for yourself, but over such a long trip, you can’t afford to ever let the tank run dry.

    Training – have a read up on how ultra racers (RAAM for example) train. They start with a big base, then add speed work, and finally combine the two.
    The basic thing you need is a huge engine thats optimised for fat burning = many many hours of z1/z2 riding. After that adding a little speed work to the mix will increase your cruising speed.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    Regarding TD finishers heart rate, it’ll come out overwhelmingly in Z2 as once you are completely utterly gubbed, thats about as high as your HR will go.
    And by keeping HR down before then it prolongs how long you last before reaching that condition.

    Nutrition is something you need to work out for yourself, but over such a long trip, you can’t afford to ever let the tank run dry.

    Training – have a read up on how ultra racers (RAAM for example) train. They start with a big base, then add speed work, and finally combine the two.
    The basic thing you need is a huge engine thats optimised for fat burning = many many hours of z1/z2 riding. After that adding a little speed work to the mix will increase your cruising speed.

    That’s quite interesting as on some days on the TD I noticed my HR was way down compared with the previous hard day where it was much higher.

    When you say nutrition I find it quite staggering that those who push the big daily mileage are able to eat cr!p from gas stations. That type of food has never been on my diet list and I don’t eat it, so having to fill your belly with pies, sweets … is not an appetising thought.

    With regards to the base mileage, would you say that for someone who is happy to go out and flog it for 3 hours on an MTB my time would be better spent just doing the steady long and slow distances day in and day out. My commute to work is 30 miles each way and during the summer I was cycling 120 – 180 miles / week. I have now reduced this down to 60 miles a week, but only because I have started hitting the gym for strength training. Maybe, I need to scrap the gym (enjoy it though) and start cycling to/from work much more.

    The end goal is not to go and set any records, but to be able to get out of my tent and feel happy to cycle another 60+ miles.

    jameso
    Full Member

    I remember reading a post on here regarding a TD finishers HR stats and someone commented that the rider stayed constantly in zone 2 for the whole race. Is this because anything above zone 2 effort and your body will just not recover overnight for the next day’s mileage?

    You’ll need to be able to work a bit harder than that for some time each day w/o stressing yourself if you’re racing and your zone 2 output needs to be higher than the next rider’s zone 2 output, the aim of training is to raise your base pace. Also, upper Z2 into mid Z3 vs Z1-2 borderline is quite a difference over a few days of riding all day. edit add – if you want to ride well enough just to enjoy it then just get your fitness up to a level where you’re confident you can cope – only way to know is to do a few shorter trips of similar daily efforts.

    The other question is whether it is possible to build up to cycling 100+ days, day in day out

    Totally possible. You need to ‘train for’ recovery ability, get used to repeated longer days and how you cope and adapt. Do a lot of zone 2 mainly because you can’t ride 12-24hrs or whatever per week in zone 3-5 all the time. You don’t need to do 24hrs a week but the more time on the bike you do the more mentally prepped you’ll be, imo it brings down the mileage – if you do 100 milers 2-3 x a week even at a low pace, mentally 100 miles becomes an easy ride.
    Interval sessions plus long steady miles and strength/resilience work, at the right time or in the right combo, seems to be a good way to go but above all else you need to want to go that far and be in that place. To truly have the spark for being there. The prep is just a question of time x effort levels, pretty dull really so the desire to do it gets you motivated to do the ground work.

    sweaman2
    Free Member

    I’ve not done the TDR (or any other bike race) but I have done some shorter ski traverses. I think with anything like this suffering and type II fun is all part of the game. I don’t think it’s possible to enjoy every moment of expedition style events. The satisfaction is in completing but not doing…

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    ‘go out and flog it for 3 hours’
    From a training perspective, thats pretty much the worst thing you can be doing, so anything would be an improvement.
    Like that you are going too hard to develop your fat burning engine, and not hard enough to force muscular adaptations to make you faster.

    It’s difficult to put a figure on training miles/hours, but for your goal of 67mi/day on a mtb, i’d suggest 10-15hrs per week. For 100+mi days then 15+hrs.
    You want to be in a position where you can go out and ride a steady pace for 6-8hrs (longer for 100mi days) and get back feeling mildly tired rather than exhausted.

    Edit: I used the word ‘Nutrition’ loosely. Shovelling in calories in a form you can digest fairly easily is the name of the game whilst moving. Quite often your body will helpfully provide you with cravings to tell you what it wants.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    You’ll need to be able to work a bit harder than that for some time each day w/o stressing yourself if you’re racing and your zone 2 output needs to be higher than the next rider’s zone 2 output, the aim of training is to raise your base pace. Also, upper Z2 into mid Z3 vs Z1-2 borderline is quite a difference over a few days of riding all day. edit add – if you want to ride well enough just to enjoy it then just get your fitness up to a level where you’re confident you can cope – only way to know is to do a few shorter trips of similar daily efforts.

    Given the terrain, I suspect that there are times where it is just not possible to keep the HR in zone 2 and you either get off and push or accept that you are going into the zones you’d rather not be in. I suppose this is where the higher end sessions come into play.

    They key point you make and @sweaman2 does as well is that you have to want to be there and accepting that you are going to suffer and not everyday is going to be fun. I think that is one aspect that I struggle with.

    The satisfaction is in completing but not doing…

    but that goes against the grain of what others tell me. They say “It’s about the journey and not the destination”?

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    ‘go out and flog it for 3 hours’
    From a training perspective, thats pretty much the worst thing you can be doing, so anything would be an improvement.
    Like that you are going too hard to develop your fat burning engine, and not hard enough to force muscular adaptations to make you faster.

    It’s difficult to put a figure on training miles/hours, but for your goal of 67mi/day on a mtb, i’d suggest 10-15hrs per week. For 100+mi days then 15+hrs.
    You want to be in a position where you can go out and ride a steady pace for 6-8hrs (longer for 100mi days) and get back feeling mildly tired rather than exhausted.

    Very interesting. The go out and flog it type riding was my mantra for over 2 decades. It’s only been over the last 3 years where I have tried to build an endurance engine (damn hard though). As I posted on here recently, commuting to work (30 miles) at 15 mph average and I get to work and sit at my desk feeling spaced out. HR is kept down in the zone 2 / low zone 3 for the 2 hours, but it still tires me out. I think this might be glycogen related as when I commute home I don’t feel anywhere as tired.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    When you are riding in at z2/3, what is your perceived effort on a scale of 1-10? HR can be a tad unreliable and is best used in conjunction with RPE.

    Could be glycogen related, although if you ate well the previous evening, there should be plenty in the tank.

    scruff9252
    Full Member

    For building a good endurance base, have a look at some Ironman training plans for inspiration.

    They are, in the vast majority, “easy” z2 training rides. They focus on fast legs and low HR. The aim is to be able to knock out 180km/112miles with very little effort to save your legs for the Marathon which comes after.

    I followed the 30 week Fink plan last winter/spring/ early summer and completed the 112miles in 6hrs with an average Hr in the low 130’s

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    When you are riding in at z2/3, what is your perceived effort on a scale of 1-10? HR can be a tad unreliable and is best used in conjunction with RPE.

    I would say 4-5. Could easily hold a conversation. It’s just the feeling not with it when I get to my desk. I am now reluctant to cycle in now as it takes me until after lunch until I start to feel productive.

    I followed the 30 week Fink plan last winter/spring/ early summer and completed the 112miles in 6hrs with an average Hr in the low 130’s

    will have a look at that. As to your HR being at 130, how does that equate to your AT. That then gives me an idea how far under you were and where you were in terms of HR zones?

    flanagaj
    Free Member
    Chew
    Free Member

    They say “It’s about the journey and not the destination”?

    It is, but you’ll need to be accepting that not every minute will be a barrel of laughs.
    It’s as much about your frame of mind and how you cope with these moments, as underlying fitness.

    The best way is just get out there and do it. Long day out, sleep rough, and then another long day.

    Chew
    Free Member

    Also, I don’t know why people get obsessed by the TD.
    There are much better/interesting places to ride on the UK/Europe

    Plenty of routes to complete over a week/weekend to build up to bigger things if required.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    @Chew, define better/interesting. I’d be delighted for you to tell me where in the UK i can find 2000+mi of unpaved roads and ride my bike over 3500m altitude.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    Also, I don’t know why people get obsessed by the TD.

    I actually found it quite boring. Endless wash boarded roads, lack of amenities to purchase decent food .. glad I did it, but it wasn’t as expected.

    Chew
    Free Member

    Longer and higher doesn’t really mean better/interesting…..

    Out of those 2000+ miles there’s a lot of monotony. 100+ miles where it’s the same thing didn’t float my boat.
    The roads may not be paved, but a lot of them are still roads and you’ll still see a fair amount of traffic.

    Personally it’s the quality of the miles, and the places you visit which are the interesting bits.

    scruff9252
    Full Member

    . As to your HR being at 130, how does that equate to your AT. That then gives me an idea how far under you were and where you were in terms of HR zones?

    Training Peaks seems to recon my threshold is 171bpm. I’d say it’s nearer the 158 personally. My resting HR was 36 at peak fitness in the summer.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    I have just calculated my zone 2 threshold to be 132 bpm 😯 My HR gets up to that just looking at the bike. Not sure how I can commute to work in 2 hours if I am to stay below that figure. My average HR for a commute ride last week was 143bpm with a max of 165bpm. I try to take it easy, but to stay in zone 2 is going to be really difficult.

    My zone 2 was calculated using a max of 188.

    scruff9252
    Full Member

    You go veeeeery slow at first, but the speed soon comes. For reference after the bike leg, i knocked out a 5hr marathon with an average hr of 117bpm.

    The trick seems to be many hours at low effort to build a very good base then build from there. Good for avoiding injuries too

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    Don’t calculate zones using max HR, complete waste of time.
    LTHR can occur at anywhere between 75-95% max.

    Why is it people are keen to follow HR based training, but can’t be bothered to do a simple 30min test?

    jameso
    Full Member

    accepting that you are going to suffer and not everyday is going to be fun

    Not sure about this. Riding a bike is hard at times, a big ride will mean some bonked-out miles or feeling cold or bad weather etc, but I’m not into all this talk of suffering and misery : ) A hard day on a bike is better than a crap day at work. Best thing someone told me about long rides was was to keep making good decisions, keep looking after yourself. If you’re truly ‘suffering’ something’s not right. If it’s hard but you remember why you’re lucky to be there or the landscape is still beautiful, you’re not really suffering, it’s just hard riding. You will get tired and I can get grumpy when I’m tired, but make a good call, have a nap, a coffee or a proplus. Feel better, keep riding.

    Not sure how I can commute to work in 2 hours if I am to stay below that figure

    Give yourself more time to start with. ‘To go fast you have to slow down’. With plenty of this slow riding and some really hard, short efforts at other times you’ll find you can ride up hills in Z2 after a while. Andy’s right, do a threshold test to get your zones (Joe Friel explains all that well). Makes a good interval session for endurance riders.

    Longer and higher doesn’t really mean better/interesting…..

    Too right. Back to what I said about wanting to be there for your own reasons. I like big and open, wanted longer, others would be bored. TA looks very different, stunning and varied, same prep ideas probably apply though.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    The LTHR test is on my to-do for the weekend.

    @jameso – I get what you are saying, but I wonder whether those that ‘suffer’ and that included me on the TD just don’t have the right endurance base in place. You have the fitness, but you are just riding in the wrong zones and as a result the net effect is accumulative fatigue with each and every day.

    Would be good to understand the effect of multiple back to back days where in one scenario you rode 7-9 hours in zone 2 and in another your did 7-9 hours in zone 3. How many days in before zone 3 rider starts to ‘suffer’ from going to hard.

    Just out of curiosity, what do pro road riders do during the grand tours. Do they too focus as much as possible at staying at a particular zone.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    I get what you are saying, but I wonder whether those that ‘suffer’ and that included me on the TD just don’t have the right endurance base in place.

    Partially true. Everyone suffers at some point on the bike – especially if racing. But in a long event like this, yes, those with a lacking base will be found out quickly.

    Just out of curiosity, what do pro road riders do during the grand tours. Do they too focus as much as possible at staying at a particular zone.

    Difficult to focus on zones in a race – pesky opposition seem to have no regard for your HR limits!
    You can find some insights by following pro riders on Strava and reading the analysis posts on Training Peaks blog.
    I think you will find when they are rolling along safely in the peleton they are indeed taking it quite easy a lot of the time.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    Difficult to focus on zones in a race – pesky opposition seem to have no regard for your HR limits!

    Yes. I overlooked that point. I doubt a “would you mind slowing it down old chap as I am creeping into zone 3” works in a race.

    This whole thing ha got me thinking as to whether I should bit the bullet and buy a power meter and start to do some really focussed training rather than the ‘just ride’ approach that I have adopted over the years.

    jameso
    Full Member

    I wonder whether those that ‘suffer’ and that included me on the TD just don’t have the right endurance base in place. You have the fitness, but you are just riding in the wrong zones and as a result the net effect is accumulative fatigue with each and every day.

    “It doesn’t get easier, you just go faster”

    Endurance base and fitness are all part of the same thing really, once you’re riding. The HI training just means you’re able to go faster at your ‘steady’ pace than you did before, or faster at your Z4, but riding at Z4 for 2.5-3hrs will still finish you off either way.
    I’ve never had a power meter, don’t see any real need when most training would be long and steady stuff or threshold intervals. HRM covers those 2 pretty well.
    With respect perhaps you’re overthinking the zones thing. You need to briskly pace yourself and the speed you do at that level is your fitness and power output but how many days you can keep doing it is also about the preparation, resilience etc that comes with the training, also with some experience – something you’ve got already.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    Endurance base and fitness are all part of the same thing really, once you’re riding. The HI training just means you’re able to go faster at your ‘steady’ pace than you did before, or faster at your Z4, but riding at Z4 for 2.5-3hrs will still finish you off either way.
    I’ve never had a power meter, don’t see any real need when most training would be long and steady stuff or threshold intervals. HRM covers those 2 pretty well.
    With respect perhaps you’re overthinking the zones thing. You need to briskly pace yourself and the speed you do at that level is your fitness and power output but how many days you can keep doing it is also about the preparation, resilience etc that comes with the training, also with some experience – something you’ve got already.

    I think a lot of it depends on how used to riding at a lower rate you are. I thought I had this cracked last year when I made a conscious effort to ride at a lower intensity. Seems that although I was riding at a lower intensity compared to when riding the MTB hard, I was still in too high a heart rate for multi day tours.

    As much as it will be alien, I am going to spend 3 months doing 10 hours / week within my calculated zone 2 window. Could be a waste of time, but I want to see what happens. I may well lost all of my top end fitness that I rely on when climbing steep climbs.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    As much as it will be alien, I am going to spend 3 months doing 10 hours / week within my calculated zone 2 window. Could be a waste of time, but I want to see what happens. I may well lost all of my top end fitness that I rely on when climbing steep climbs.

    1) Its good to commit to a plan up front, but don’t forget to re-evaluate progress monthly and make changes as appropriate.
    2) Yes, you will lose your high end a bit, but you will need it less, and it takes less time to rebuild.
    3) Assuming most of the 10hrs will be made up of 2hr commutes, you can add some intervals to the 2nd half of every 3rd homeward trip – make them HARD (z5a/b/c).
    4) Pay attention to what your body and legs are telling you. HRM’s can lie to you. If it feels like z2, but your HRM says z1, then don’t fight to get HR up as your feeling is probably correct.

    ianfitz
    Free Member

    There seems to be done good advice above. But the best is never trust calculated HR – you need to figure out what your max is through a test. I know of max hr rate variance of people the same age between 168 and 225. Clearly they need to train to personal HR numbers.

    There is loads of detailed but understandable info in the fact sheets at http://www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/factsheets.htm

    I’ve not ridden the TD but on the highland trail this year I very rarely got my heart rate above zone 2 after the first day.

    Ive had some tests recently as part of research. My numbers aren’t particularly special. FTP, VO2 max are nothing special. I’m not a particularly fast rider. But I am determined, stubborn and can soak up a fair bit of suffering. Also efficient at not faffing, kit, bivy set up, eating, resupply and even gates can lead to you losing loads of time.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    +1 to Ian’s comments about calculated MHR – mine is supposedly low 160s depending on which guess, sorry formula, you use. I can maintain a HR of 172 for a couple of minutes so clearly something is wrong.

    I tend not to bother with a HR monitor on off-road rides but go by perceived effort and try to be at a level where I can comfortably hold a conversation. According to this https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20140808-Understanding-Intensity-2–Heart-Rate-0 that equates to zone 2. There are going to be climbs where this isn’t possible but it’s generally something to aim at.

    The comment about faffage is also pertinent and for me it’s the difference between pottering around and “racing”. At this year’s BB200 I had a total of 2hrs20mins of no GPS movement. The cafe at Bwlch y Sarnau accounted for 50 minutes of that so just 90 minutes for all the gates and a refuelling stop at Knighton (we won’t mention the relocation time during the last 15Km spent swearing at the GPS!).

    When I got to the finish, yes I was tired but physically I could have carried on the next day.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    I thought it worthwhile adding this. I made a conscious effort on the 30 mile commute home last night and in this morning to stay at a HR around 130bpm. Using the calculators with a range of 165 – 175bpm (given past ride data I know I am in this window) for LTHR 130bpm is in the zone 2 sector.

    Average home was 120bpm and the ride took me 2hrs 15 mins instead of 2 hours where I normally average 142bpm and ride in was 130bpm in about the same time.

    Seemed very alien and I had to really focus to work the gears to keep the HR in the window. One benefit is that I got to work today without feeling tired.
    Going to stick with this, but my only concern is can I do this for 12 weeks and then go to NZ for the unoffical TA.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    Excellent to hear you got to work not feeling tired.
    Yes, it does feel totally alien at first. You get used to it though, and soon enough you’ll find you are back to your old speed for less effort.
    Give it a month and you’ll probably be seeing a difference already. Especially in your weekend long ride, should find yourself finishing it feeling much fresher.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    Excellent to hear you got to work not feeling tired.
    Yes, it does feel totally alien at first. You get used to it though, and soon enough you’ll find you are back to your old speed for less effort.
    Give it a month and you’ll probably be seeing a difference already. Especially in your weekend long ride, should find yourself finishing it feeling much fresher.

    I suspect there are many other cyclists like myself who have constantly cycled in the temp zone or above all their life and don’t know any difference. Like the books say. If you don’t train in the aerobic zone your body isn’t as efficient at using fats for fuel. The more I think aout it the more it makes complete sense.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    Sorry to rekindle this post, but I am still over analysing the training. As previously stated my commute to work is 2hrs 15 mins each way. I am doing this twice a week (Mon & Thurs) and then adding in a 4-5hr ride on a Sunday. Tuesday and Friday I do a 1 hr strength training session in the gym.

    So this equates to ~ 13 hrs/week and although I feel I should be adding more cycling time, I am concious that rest days are important? I currently have 2/week.

    So do I

    a) Drop the gym sessions. I do enjoy them mind?
    b) Cut rest day down to just one day a week?

    Also trying to understand how the body deals with a ride of 5 hours constant duration Vs 2 2.5hr rides on the same day. Wondering which gives more bang for your buck.

    Currently stressing out as to the best way to proceed as I am concious my trip is only 9 weeks away 8-\

    RAGGATIP
    Free Member

    I do loads of audaxes but try and complete at a fairly quick pace. I think every country has it’s unique challenges but essentially practice doing loads of miles in as quick a time possible in one session. No science behind it.

    I commute every day at high intensity no power meter or anything just ride hard. So that’s a good testing bed for my equipment and improves my power. The audaxes prove to me what distances I’m capable of so that’s the psychological aspect. Planning helps calm my nerves when it comes to the logistics. Works for me.

    I did the Tour Aotearoa in 11 days this year averaging around 150 miles a day which is quite a modest amount. I know I can ride over double that in 24 hours but you need to try not to get too carried away on multi day events. The TA had a six hour compulsory stoppage rule in every 24 hour period and that does affect the daily mileage. Not sure it’ll apply in 2018. I think some of the fastest riders ignored it. I didn’t as it was a holiday for me and I didn’t want to be a zombie. Six hours is more than enough though.

    But yeh in short do some audaxes with water and normal food as your only fuel. You don’t want to start thinking you need some weird power gel or whatever to fuel your body ‘cos you don’t.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    @flanagaj.
    If you know what you are doing, why, and what direct benefit it has to your cycling then by all means continue with the gym sessions.
    Folks will have different opinions on this, but if it were me at 9 weeks out i’d be looking to drop to 1 day per week in the gym and focus on compound exercises and core strength. This would give you an extra day on the bike.

    As to whether you can drop a rest day, only you can tell that. Elite athletes can do 6 days a week, but its also their day job. Some amateurs can do it too, but i suspect they are a small % that are blessed with good genes. You need to monitor your fatigue levels and make the call yourself.
    My opinion would be to err on the side of caution. You’ve more to potentially lose from burnout than you can gain from a 6th day working out.

    Regarding the split sessions, the answer is they both give best bang for buck, but for different things. A 5hr session can give you a fantastic endurance building ride, whereas two shorter sessions allow some recovery which can give you better returns on speed/power sessions.

    @RAGGATIP gives some good advice with the audaxes At 9 weeks out you want some rides that replicate the event, going a little further a little harder. Maybe every 2nd week.

    hummerlicious
    Free Member

    I went out to do the TD with my son this summer, we made it to Butte, but time had conspired against us and it just wasn’t logistically possible to carry on with the time we had left. I’m not going to lie, we were pretty damn knackered too!

    The thing is I’d originally planned to try to do a certain mileage a day, stick religiously to the route. But in the end it just didn’t pan out that way, we did some bits, we skipped some bits. We rode other trails too. We had a fantastic time but, and I don’t want to use the expression really, it was a life changing experience for me. I really can’t think about anything else now other than going back and doing more.

    I’d been dreaming about it since Jenn went and spoke to her many times about it, she told me I’d enjoy it a lot more if I followed my heart and did what I wanted to do, rather than trying to keep on a race pace and she was right.

    I’m rambling now and I don’t know what point I was going to make!

    Anyway, why do people get so wrapped up in it? I don’t know, all I know is that we had an awesome experience and I will go back and do the rest at some stage.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    I do loads of audaxes but try and complete at a fairly quick pace. I think every country has it’s unique challenges but essentially practice doing loads of miles in as quick a time possible in one session. No science behind it.

    I commute every day at high intensity no power meter or anything just ride hard. So that’s a good testing bed for my equipment and improves my power. The audaxes prove to me what distances I’m capable of so that’s the psychological aspect. Planning helps calm my nerves when it comes to the logistics. Works for me.

    I did the Tour Aotearoa in 11 days this year averaging around 150 miles a day which is quite a modest amount. I know I can ride over double that in 24 hours but you need to try not to get too carried away on multi day events. The TA had a six hour compulsory stoppage rule in every 24 hour period and that does affect the daily mileage. Not sure it’ll apply in 2018. I think some of the fastest riders ignored it. I didn’t as it was a holiday for me and I didn’t want to be a zombie. Six hours is more than enough though.

    But yeh in short do some audaxes with water and normal food as your only fuel. You don’t want to start thinking you need some weird power gel or whatever to fuel your body ‘cos you don’t.Points noted, but that flies in the face of everything I have been told. I can go out and ride hard, but I’ll be in high zone 3+ and that will leave me fatigued for the next day and is not sustainable day after day?

    I admire your super human effort of 150 miles/day, but that’s totally out of my league.

    I take your point regarding getting rides in with just water and normal food though.

    flanagaj
    Free Member

    If you know what you are doing, why, and what direct benefit it has to your cycling then by all means continue with the gym sessions.
    Folks will have different opinions on this, but if it were me at 9 weeks out i’d be looking to drop to 1 day per week in the gym and focus on compound exercises and core strength. This would give you an extra day on the bike.

    As to whether you can drop a rest day, only you can tell that. Elite athletes can do 6 days a week, but its also their day job. Some amateurs can do it too, but i suspect they are a small % that are blessed with good genes. You need to monitor your fatigue levels and make the call yourself.
    My opinion would be to err on the side of caution. You’ve more to potentially lose from burnout than you can gain from a 6th day working out.

    Regarding the split sessions, the answer is they both give best bang for buck, but for different things. A 5hr session can give you a fantastic endurance building ride, whereas two shorter sessions allow some recovery which can give you better returns on speed/power sessions.

    Gym sessions have been super sets of squats / dead lifts and plenty of core. Not quite related but upper body too. You raise a good point about dropping one as I do really need to get the mileage up. Maybe commute Mon / Wed and then ride in Friday with a long extended ride home and then another Saturday. Sunday off and then gym Tues.

    Would like to get up to 20 hours/week if possible, but don’t want to overcook it and end up burnt out. This week should be just shy of 15 hours excluding gym.

    RAGGATIP
    Free Member

    I think if you’re feeling jaded from your commute then are you going to bed early enough and then leaving earlier? Your body needs to rest and you can slow down a bit on your commute. Is it 30 miles each way? That’s a lot. Perhaps take a mid week rest day if you can. The commute is good base fitness. Mines a nice distance at 12 miles each way so I can afford to go at a quick pace but a bigger distance then I’d definitely slow down. It shouldn’t impact your job.

    My advice would be to focus training on big distance rides. The most you’ll find are a few 200 km audaxes at the moment and you’d need to travel to get to the start which could be a hassle. So use this time in the evening to plan a route from your front door. Maybe start with a flat’ish 80 miler and then another adding an extra 30 miles up to say 150. Any power training helps with hauling baggage up hills but it’s mainly pacing that’s important and knowing how to ride over large distances. Tomorrow evening get on Ride with GPS and plan your route for an early Saturday start and keep the route interesting. It’s an adventure you’ll be taking yourself on.

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