I’m looking for some advice on trail running shoes.

Waterproof
Decent Grip/Tread
Wide Fit
Flat/Minimal sole.

I know about the Merrel barefoot-type shoes, has anybody got any feedback on them? Inov-8 also seem popular, which of their large range would fit the bill?

Thanks

Merrel barefoot-type shoes

Do like them a lot, though definitely not waterproof! Decent tread. Toe box is very roomy so should be ok for wide feet. Not tired the Inov-8 ones.

I’ve got merrel trail gloves and inov-8 x-talons 190, f-lite 195s, and VFF treks.
Although the trail-gloves are meant to wide, I find the inov-8s more roomy for some reason, though I have lopped off a couple of bits of the midsole at the edge that were causing blisters. The trail gloves also look like they will be pretty rubbish once trails get muddy though.

The x-talons are the only ones that I find reliable now that it’s started getting muddy again, not waterproof though – but your feet soon warm up after a soaking. Vivobarefoot do a Neo trail, which is wide, looks like it has a reasonable amount of grip, and is alledgely more waterproof than an inov-8, quite heavy though for a minimal shoe.

Go to a running shop, get your gait analysed, and go with what they recommend. While you need less control etc off-road, the wrong shoe will still cause more problems than it solves.

For what it’s worth, Inov8 usually come up quite narrow. For each shoe in their range there’s often two numbered models – the higher number is usually their “comfort” (wider) last.

Think carefully about Gore-tex shoes. If you have warm feet, if you’re running in dewy grass, or if you tend to plunge through streams, they’re pointless. Membrane fabrics only work if ther outside is dry and the pores unobstructed. So as soon as your shoe gets muddy, they’re not breathable any more and if you have sweaty feet, they’ll be soaked in no time.

Standard advice on barefoot/minimalist shoes also applies. It may be the latest trend, but it doesn’t work for everyone and can be injurious if you try and force yourself into it. Hence, get a gait analysis and see what works for you.

Also, for what it’s worth, I run in Mizuno Wave Harrier 3s, and love them.

I have a pair of FiveFingers Bikilas that I’ve been using to rehab an ACL repair. They have been a revelation compared to the Asics I was using, I was picking up a lot of niggly injuries. I’m not sure Vibram have anything with enough grip for muddy trails, the Merrels also look a bit light on tread. I might give the Inov-8s a try, I don’t need 100% waterproof, it just makes the shoes a wee bit more versatile if you know you can wear them all day and keep your feet dry.

I also wouldn’t worry too much about the gore tex bit, useful till you land in something deeper than you expected, then you’re running in swimming pools. They are useful in shorter grass and firmer trails, but even if you do get full of water, your feet stay warm and wet, albeit squelchy.

UK Gear do some

http://www.ukgear.com/Shop/Products/Mens-Footwear/1119-PT-1000-Road-AND-Trail-Running-Shoe-Structured-Cushioning.html

I had some PT-03s and they were very stable – a little warm (as they are suppossed to be for winter conditions) and the soles were quite a grippy on ice/wet metal/wood as I had hoped.

I used innovate with decent socks. My run can be waist deep on occasion tho so a waterproof shoe would be a liability.
Kahtoola microspikes in my bag and im good to go anywhere

Another for consideration that is along the lines of the Merrell ones you mention are the Vivobarefoot Neo Trail.

Found the merrells to be great shoes, but wouldn’t want to be in them when it gets wet and muddy. Have bought a pair of inov-8 bare grip 200 ready for when it gets sloppy though they are very narrow and I have cut a lug off the bottom that was causing the sides to turn upward and rub my feet. Now its off they work perfectly though.

Merrell have brought out a goretex version of the trail glove but for a lot more money, I haven’t been bothered by the wet as said above as soon as your in a puddle they don’t work anyway.

Very much horses for courses and difficult for others to recommend.

You are entering into a hotly debated area when it comes to VFF/barefoot/minimalist vs others.

Gore-tex – again depends. I have used both. Gore-tex is great for runs in wet fields etc but if you get really wet its actually better to have non GTX which tends to drain easier.

Grip is the same – what type of races/conditions. I use innov-*s for short cross country (ie 10k races) in the winter because of the grip. But I have suffered from three cases of plantar fasciitis when using their shoes for longer distance training and ultras. Several of my friends have found the same. For the first time in a while I went for trail run (just over an hour) in innov_8s today and immediately felt the PF.

I love Salomon shoes for ultras especially things like Lakeland 100. But they have shite grip on wet grass and mud. So its a balance. I am just thinking about buying a pair of their XR Crossmax with the aggressive sole and combining that with their other trad shoe and/or their new trail shoe.

Don’t bother with Goretex, get Smartwool socks. The shoe will drain and your feet will still feel warm. I have the Merrell trail glove which I’m starting to prefer to Vibrams but its not that good on rocks and I don’t think any minimal shoe from Vibram or Merrell will work well in mud.

If its really muddy I prefer Adidas Kinvaras which are not minimal in the way you are looking for but work well.

Go to a running shop, get your gait analysed……

blah, blah, blah. Sorry, bad (expensive) experiance.

Goretex will hold water and you’ll be sloshing around in your shoes making your skin soft and giving yourself blisters.

I’ve found the X-talon really good and the Speedcross 3’s quite good for intermediate to boggy trails…I would not get either if you’re running from teh door.

Salomon XA pro’s are pretty heavy but they’ll last more than a 20 miles on Tarmac (the X-Talons and SC’s won’t) and are pretty good on the trails too…just done a mountain ultra in them actually; chose these over the Inov8’s and the Salomons and it was the right choice.

I’d be interested to hear any experiance with the NB minimis; they be my next door to trail shoe I reckon.

I have had the Salomon XA’s in GTX and normal. I had the latter first for the arguments posted above by others. But then tried the GTXs and found them much better. I think the argument about them being unable to drain/too hot is overdone – but that’s only my experience. Plus I also use them as a default dog walking shoe and then the GTX is really helpful especially in dewy fields.

I used to get really fed up with non_GTX and wet fields in the early morning, but see the merits for 100 milers and overnight mountain maras what might involve total immersion in water. Then the merits of GTX become de-merits.

I hope I am not contradicting myself too much!!

Sizing on all of these is a nightmare so be careful if my on the net.

I have had gait analysis twice since I did my ACL, with two different recommendations. I don’t want to criticise it because it obviously has big benefits at the right time, but I did have problems with instability. I have gone back to a minimalist shoe and spent a fair bit of time on rehab to build a much more stable knee. For these shoes I am looking to gradually progress back to the decent-paced 10km off-road with decent form, so I am leaning towards a minimalist shoe with decent grip like the Inov8s or the Vivobarefoots. If these get me through the winter I will have to look at cushioning options and gait analysis, by that stage I should hopefully have developed a more consistent gait that is worth analysing.

On the Goretex, the reason I asked is I have a pair of New Balance that must be 6 or 7 years old. I haven’t run in them for year but they are great for walking the dog and still keep the water out for a couple of hours.

I have the Merrell trail glove which I’m starting to prefer to Vibrams but its not that good on rocks

Bloody awful on rocks, specially going downhill when it’s very easy to get sharp rock in the middle of your arch, not ideal. Stay away from rubble.

What do you mean by trail running? What sort of terrain are you going to be running on? Lowland paths? High rocky mountain stuff? Moorland singletrack things? Muddy but not rocky?

Been using the Salomon Crossmax recently, really good compromise between on and off-road, decent cushioning, decent grip, easier on the feet than inov8s but further from fell shoes, if that makes sense. Decent grip on Peak grit rocks, less sure about them on slippy when wet rocks.

I’m not really a ‘proper’ runner though, just a couple of times a week on Peak District moorland/backlanes/pavements.

Seanoc – expensive? I’ve always got them free when buying shoes. As long as it’s from somewhere decent/respectable (/respected…) then it’s all good.

What sort of terrain are you going to be running on?

A bit of everything really, locally its mostly hilly muddy singletrack and grass with the odd bit of fire road. I have rocky mountain and bog, and beaches/sand dunes, all within a half hour. Basically soft off-road and a bit of rocky stuff.

personally my kinda wide feet with high arch and high instep really appreciate the Salomon shape (narrow at the heel and wide/boxy round the toes (i.e. same as Specialized shoes)… so I use XA Pro 3D (both the GTX Goretex and the non GTX mesh ones too) – which are great all round trail shoes imo.

I also use their Speedcross shoes, for wet muddy/grassy/snowy runs.. these are ace, really grippy, and I don’t use their GTX version, since the normal ones with Merino socks are just ace.

I wouldn’t buy waterproof ones. you ARE going to get wet feet by trail running (unless you run only when its not raining and on manicured trails with no boggy sections). Having a waterproof membrane retains this water and means your feet are much wetter for longer which inevitably leads to blisters. They also take longer to dry out between runs and are generally more expensive.

Another vote for Salamon Speedcross here – really grippy and comfy in the wet and mud. I have hot feet so never want waterproof, just get wet feet!

Trail or fell?

Gait analysis is pointless for off-road as the surface isn’t consistent.
Don’t get waterproof – drainage is more important.
Are you sure about the barefoot thing? Aqua shoes are a good cheap way to experiment.

Otherwise New Balance MT101s, although not that grippy in a real muddy situation

I know they’re not trail shoes, sorry, but Ianmunro, how do you find the Inov8 195s? I’m looking for a flatter less cushioned run/race shoe and I think they might be the ones

Yup I reckon the 195’s would work great as a racing flat. You could probably get something even lighter, but the 195s are still pretty comfy under foot. You might not get a huge mileage out of them though. The soles are fine by the uppers are pretty thin and look like they can wear quickly. My xtalons 190s which are pretty much the same thing but with a different sole started developing small wear holes in the forefoot area after only about 200 miles. Having said that the wear holes haven’t got much bigger over the next 200 and mud might be a bit more abrasive.

As said the Salomon XA Pro 3D are a very wide fit around the toes, so these might suit. Although heavy. The Speedcross have a very thin sole, and a lot lighter, assuming fit is similar, they should be the ones for you.

Seanoc – expensive? I’ve always got them free when buying shoes. As long as it’s from somewhere decent/respectable (/respected…) then it’s all good.

Yes, they are free but then I always feel compelled to buy from the same shop at full RRP. £90 for a pair of XA Pro’s and £105 for Asics Nimbus. The Asics were too big (but then they didn’t have 10.5 in stock); the XA Pro’s were good bu at nearly £60 more expensive than another local outlet. It didn’t feel particularly free tha day. MOTI in Cardiff by the way; won’t be back.