Heading off the the French Alps for a couple of weeks touring this summer. My GF has a genesis equilibrium with a 105 5800 groupset – 50/34 and 11-28. The front shifter is double, not triple. I’m trying to come up with the cheapest way to get some more low end range and would be grateful for any suggestions.

1) bigger cassette – am I right in assuming MTB and road are now completely incompatible? Even with a big MTB cassette the range might not be enough.

2) new rings – though this would probably mean new cranks as well, and something like 28/46. Any problems with having a big gap between ring sizes? Would have to be MTB cranks as road won’t go smaller than 34, so possible problems with chainline/spacers. Would I have to use 11s specific rings? Shame the shifter won’t allow a triple as that’d be ideal, but I don’t want to go to the expense of new shifters really.

Any other ideas?! Cheers!

Casette option depends on your mech size. You will get a 32t if you have a medium cage derailleur. It doesn’t make a massive difference. Buying full crank will be cheaper than chain rings, try 2nd hand??
Last option is to offload the GF of all the heavy kit. I tour on a compact 28t and 2 panniers. Depends how strong she is.

Or go to a Compact+ chainset.

Do you mean super-compact chainset? Looks like that might do the job, not many around though – FSA and praxis, both £££ but will look into.

Last option is to offload the GF of all the heavy kit. I tour on a compact 28t and 2 panniers. Depends how strong she is

Good for you. I’d probably not be asking if that were an option 😉

Didn’t mean to sound like a bell. Off loading can work. Means you both suffer equally.

Biggest 10 speed cassette you can get (was it suntour or microshift did a cheap one?), 9 speed long cage derailure (should be cheap enough now), wolftooth derailure spacer thingy.
Should do it.

http://www.microshift.com.tw/CS-H100-1140T.html

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/s

mall-components/products/goatlink

A 32t cassette should fit and will make a huge difference. Remember the hills in the French alps are rarely steep so you may not need super low gears.

32T will be the equivalent of 1 gear lower. I’d try for more, fourbanger’s solution looks good or buy a SH chainset (could be tricky finding the right ring sizes – use the inner 2 on a triple?)

A 32t cassette should fit and will make a huge difference. Remember the hills in the French alps are rarely steep so you may not need super low gears.

I think some of them can be quite long.

Depends how much kit you are carrying. 20kg of kit after 100km in the hills and you’ll want a granny gear.

Biggest 10 speed cassette you can get

she’s on an 11spd group?

A 32t cassette should fit and will make a huge difference. Remember the hills in the French alps are rarely steep so you may not need super low gears.

Spent 2 weeks in Alps (long) and Dolomites (steep) last year. Fitted a 32T cassette to Munqe-chick’s 105 5800. It worked fine with a short cage rear mech; though she is well-trained and never cross chains big-big there’s not much of a risk in the big mountains as you tend to be in extremes of gear range.

My default gear for the Alps is 34 -30 but thats just me on the bike and there is still times I would have a 32 or bigger.

Are 11 speed road and mtb not compatible?

My experience is a lot of things that shouldnt work do.

I just fitted an 11-42 XT cassette to my 5800 boik. Long cage 5800 der and a Roadlink, 34/50 up front. I can get all combos inc small/small and big/big without saggy or binding chains. Changes fine as well. Think it give me a 23“ bottom gear with 700c. £100 all in.

I live in the alps and would advise on the biggest combo you can manage. A super compact chain set and the biggest you can fit on the back.

Some mountains are steep, some are long and some are long and very steep.

It’s really opened my eyes to how fit the locals are to smash the climbs in the way they do.

What bb does your frame run? If its threaded, go for a square taper chain set from spa cycles. Really cheap and good quality. Spec any rings you want (MTB) then fine tune the chain line with the bb spindle length. For reference I run middle burn cranks with 32/42 rings this can be lowered as well. You won’t need bigger than 42 on the front. Your touring not racing.

use the inner 2 on a triple?

Spa sell a £35 triple with 42/32/22 rings. I wonder if you could remove the 32 middle ring and put the 42 in its place*, to have a 42/22 double. I’m sceptical myself whether this would work and whether you might encounter problems trying to do it, but it may be worth investigating.

You would need a square taper bottom bracket, but at least the advantage of square taper is that you should be able to select one to give you the right chainline. You would also need a set of spacers in place of the missing outer ring or double chainring bolts, see here.

You might have problems with the existing front mech because of the 20 tooth gap using smaller rings than it was designed for, and the need to lower the mech (may not be possible to lower it sufficiently if a braze on mech, and also may foul the chainstay with such a small inner ring). Shimano did make a front mech for smaller cyclocross chainsets, the CX70, which is still available and which I believe would work with 11 speed, which I have read of being used with compact chainsets, e.g. see here. Shimano specify a 16 tooth maximum capacity, so it might not work, in which case you might need to buy a larger inner chainring and/or smaller middle ring to reduce the jump. A larger inner chainring would probably be better, e.g. 42/26 or 42/28.

EDIT – * Sorry, lost the plot there, I doubt you could even bodge fitting the outer ring in place of the middle. You would have to buy a suitable replacement middle ring from Spa.

I dubt any front mech wll shift a 20+T gap.

I put a 24T on my road triple lately, shifting down to it from the 39T was a ‘mare.

I dubt any front mech wll shift a 20+T gap.

I put a 24T on my road triple lately, shifting down to it from the 39T was a ‘mare.

30 years ago some cycletourists were using what was called a ‘half step plus a granny’ set up. This was a triple with closely spaced middle and outer rings and a very small inner ring. The idea was that changing between middle and outer gave a smaller jump than shifting one sprocket on the back (bear in mind this was in the days of 5 and 6 speed with big jumps on a wide ratio freewheel). The need for that sort of set up disappeared with the improvements in equipment and gearing brought about by the take off of mountain bikes, and I don’t think any modern triple front mech could cope with it.

I used to use a 40/26 double for cyclecamping with panniers, but I always worried that the aluminium inner ring might fail under the strain of riding a heavily loaded bike up a mountain using a 26/28 gear, so I carried a spare inner ring just in case. If I were doing it now, I would use a steel inner ring.

PM sent

A mate uses a 32 sprocket with a short Ultegra mech. Works just fine although he did wind the B screw in a bit.
MTb chainset should be workable. I use one with my bike using a SRAM double set up. Road mechs. Playing with the spacers can help.

Or go the square taper way with the outer 42 moved to the middle spot. Brings the chain line back to road positions. That combo of chain rings is what I use. 22/42 with the SRAM set up and a short mech although I don’t go above a 28 at the back.

Not really clear above. I use an MTB triple with the 42 moved to the mid position. The SRAM front mech copes perfectly and the short rear is enough for that with a 11-28 cassette. Just. Chain is a bit sloppy down the small end of the cassette.

Managed perfectly well touring the Alps on my equilibrium – 53,39,30 triple and 11-28 cassette and I’m a spinner. I would suggest a call to Spa Cycles – see if they have a cheap double with smaller rings and a slightly higher range cassette to give you a lower bottom end, no need to go for MTB granny

Just the one trip? Slightly bodge solution – get a triple chainset to suit and shift it with an old down tube shifter?

Thanks all, plenty to think about there!

I replaced a 9sp road 50/34 with an XT 42/28 chainset on my CdF. It works fine.

I’m unfamiliar with MTB options these days, but outside of those I’d probably get one of these plus a 115-122mm bottom bracket, and lose the big ring. All done for £50.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2000/SPA-CYCLES-XD-2-Touring-Triple-Chainset

Or they have their super compact for £60 which comes with two rings 16T apart.

For moderately loaded touring in the Alps I would suggest a 1:1 ratio for a bottom gear as an absolute maximum.

I found a 34/30 bottom gear worked well for me in the Alps, but I wasn’t carrying panniers. I think the best suggestion is an 11 speed mtb cassette (say 11-36) and a road link for the 105 rear mech. Plenty of low end gears and not too expensive.

My wife’s road bike is 10-speed 105 and I sorted out some lower gears by going to a long cage mech and an 11-34 cassette. She found that a big improvement over the previous 11-28.

I’m not really keen on getting a square taper BB, but looking at a triple chainset to start with, and either just use the middle and granny, or possibly get a Tiagra 4703 triple LH shifter and mech. I have an 10s SLX triple chainset I could borrow off another bike, so if that works I’d just need to buy the mech and shifter.

This excellent webpage summarises most options.

If you use a HT2 triple chainset you might find you have to change the front mech due to the fixed chain line. You might be able to file the stops to get it to drop into the little ring. A MTB ht 2 double would be the best option as previously stated if SQ taper is not floating your boat.

Fir a triple then use a bar end shifter for the front shift.

Once you return remive bar end shifter.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3383/SPA-CYCLES-TD-2-Super-Compact-Chainset-with-Zicral-Rings

Thinking out of the box, and being ultra cheapskate, I remember seeing couples in the Cristalp using an arrangement like this:

but some sort of gearing change is probably better…

£60?
the arms are only £20.

I bet you could find some rings for under £40…. like this…
and this?

OP, if you are going to mix MTB and road components, be careful that you don’t get caught out by the differing chainlines, and the impact of using an MTB chainset (even a triple with outer ring removed) and a road front mech. Even if the road mech will move out far enough to reach the middle ring, the angle through which it moves inwards when changing down may not work well with the small inner ring, and you may also have to contend with the front mech being obstructed by the chainstay with such a small inner ring. Incidentally, I assume you do not have a short cage rear mech, since that would probably not have enough capacity.

At the end of the day, it may simply be a matter of trial and error to see if you can get your chosen combination of components to work.

I would also suggest you have a look at the various threads on this subject on the CTC forum, e.g. this one. It might even be worth posting your query on that forum.

Thanks again for all the advice chaps.

The compatibility issue was beginning to bug me, and as we don’t have long till we go I’ve actually just bought a whole 4703 Tiagra triple groupset. Kind of the opposite of what I wanted to do in the OP (i.e. keep it cheap cheap) but overall I think it’ll be for the best, as I can probably get a large proportion of the cost back by selling the near mint 5800 group.

So sorry to all those who posted really inventive suggestions, I did consider all the options! I just hadn’t realised what a minefield it’d turned into since 10 speed mtb and 11 speed road came out. It’s almost as if the manufacturers just wanted everyone to upgrade the whole group rather than add on bits as required!

The icing on the cake would be a smaller inner ring than the 30 supplied. That bit more range for not much money

Get an 11-36 https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/pg-1170-cassette#sm.001ku9uqb61memf11uv1kwt191jpq , then see if it works with what you’ve got.

You’ll probably need a longer chain whatever. SRAM PC1110 can be had for a tenner in that case.

If not get a med cage mech or a https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

I have 11-36 / 34 – 50 with with a med cage 105 rear mech which works fine.

Anything lower and you’re pretty much at walking speed anyway, and most alpine climbs don’t get much above 7%.

^ that.

Existing mech with a Road Link and a SRAM 11-36 cassette as above, or a Suntour 11-40t.

Good shout. 34f/36r gives the same ratio as 30f/32r. Maybe that Tiagra group will be going back on Collect+. Though overall with the cassette, chain and roadlink (total £86) the cost might actually be higher than trading in the 5800 group for a tiagra triple. Hmm.

most alpine climbs don’t get much above 7%.

What total crap. Are you getting confused with the alps and holland ?

Anyway. OP? Sounds like you’ve done the right thing.
For the sake of a few hundred quid you have more than enough gear range and a happy wife. When I moved to the alps I had to do the same to my wife’s bike. It’s not the big climbs that get you it’s the 3 miles of 4 % followed by a bigger 7+%.

Hope you have an wonderfully time. Remember to keep a camera handy, there are so many nice views that it’s hardly worth putting it away 🙂