“Waste of time and money, they’ve given in to public pressure, but having read the previous CPS report, I think I could defend him, the evidence is so full of holes”
not really followed the case or understood the issues have you?

” Been to china for a few mounts not so long ago, no chav problem there no pissed up ****. Because the police would beat ur head in with iron bar if you did. Needles to say i felt much safer there, left some money in a cash machine and some guy chased me down the street to give it to me. No i dont read the Daily Mail or the Guardian, i think for my self.”
In China both the criminals and law abiding majority fear the police the criminals fear having to pay bribes and fear being beaten up or killed and the law abiding majority fear being beaten up killed or deprived of their homes on a political whim. I’m sure as a westerner with money and freedom to leave you felt safe and protected but you might want to consider how real people living under that system before you laud it.

In China both the criminals and law abiding majority fear the police the criminals fear having to pay bribes and fear being beaten up or killed and the law abiding majority fear being beaten up killed or deprived of their homes on a political whim. I’m sure as a westerner with money and freedom to leave you felt safe and protected but you might want to consider how real people living under that system before you laud it.

I spent all my time in Beijing i can only say what i saw. Im not saying that doesn’t happen, im just stating my own experiences.
Also there is a lot of anti china propaganda in western news papers such as the Guardian and dailmail. Most of it is shit!

Do you people really believe the things you say about the police?

Missing out on the fun, routinely thumping passers by etc. These aren’t the actions of the policemen I know. I like Coppers it’s a job I’d not do and one that needs doing, mistakes are made and every large workforce has it’s bad eggs but FFS.

i want to know what a libairas is!

🙂

libertarian Ass?

i want to know what a libairas is!

its a ‘liberals’ spelt by a dyslexic person!

not really followed the case or understood the issues have you?

What makes you say that? Have a point you disagree with or just generally disagree?

I’ve read the CPS report that says there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him the first time round as all the post mortems were flawed, meaning there’s no solid evidence that it was the push that killed him.

every large workforce has it’s bad eggs

That’s clearly nonsense. What about the catholic church. That’s a worldwide organisation of millions of priests. Are you telling me that a significant minority of them have been up to no good? And the people at the top would react by trying to cover it up? Are you? Seriously?

Oh… hang on a minute……

ah ok, I was going for a portuguese library, please continue to illuminate us

Should be able to get a prosecution for assault. Manslaughter? Not if he has a decent brief. IMO.

I would like to see incidents like this dealt with as corporate manslaughter – I want to see the senior officers in dock as well. someone recruited him, trained him, briefed him etc. They are culpable as well.

I would like to see incidents like this dealt with as corporate manslaughter – I want to see the senior officers in dock as well. someone recruited him, trained him, briefed him etc. They are culpable as well.

If you die from falling over then some thing must have already been wronge with him, he wouldnt have been pushed if he did what he was told, hence his problem.

You seem to be doing the ‘unquestioning’ thing rather well. Carry on. Any views on the holocaust? Personally, I never saw that happen. Therefore …..

“Waste of time and money, they’ve given in to public pressure, but having read the previous CPS report, I think I could defend him, the evidence is so full of holes”
not really followed the case or understood the issues have you?

Crankboy, would be really interesting to hear a professional opinion here on the possible defences…

Seems to me that the eggshell skull rule would apply, meaning that he’d be liable for manslaughter, but only if:
i) the injury directly attributed to his death, and
ii) the original use of violence in pushing him over was in fact illegal

on i) I’m seems to me that “beyond reasonable doubt” is going to be difficult, given the initial post mortem results, and the likely evidence of the person who actually PM’d the body, who seemed fairly adamant that the volume of blood was not consistent with him bleeding out.

on ii) I think thats going to be a very complex argument over legality on whether his use of force (a single push) was reasonable, given his belief at the time, his duty on the day, as a police officer, to keep the peace, the reluctance of tomlinson to move on, the fact he was p*ssed (would a sober person have fallen over) and a myriad of arguments that the jury are likely to be out of the room for.

comments?

demJeremy – Member

Should be able to get a prosecution for assault. Manslaughter? Not if he has a decent brief. IMO
Funny Kier Starmer disagree’s with you, I’d love to see you discuss it with him. WTF makes you think you know more about it than he does? He said there was a realistic prospect of a conviction? What immense legal knowledge do you have that trumps the DPP?

If you die from falling over then some thing must have already been wronge with him, he wouldnt have been pushed if he did what he was told, hence his problem.

Does that apply to the many cases where someone has been assaulted on the street and in being pushed over has cracked their skull open on the kerb and subsequently died.

Regardless of whether he had pre-existing conditions, if the the push caused his death then its manslaughter. The jury will be deciding whether that push was justified. If it was, so be it, if it was then he the PC committed manslaughter. As simple as.

If you watch the video he’s moving away and pushed from behind. (28secs) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ

Im not sure what else you would want him to be doing other than moving away from the police?

binners – Member
You seem to be doing the ‘unquestioning’ thing rather well. Carry on. Any views on the holocaust? Personally, I never saw that happen. Therefore …..

right thats it some Muppet has brought the Hitler argument in, the thread is now dead 🙁

Godwins law doesnt apply on stw, threads go on for ages. Are you looking for an excuse to leave?

So basicly as i dont agrea with ur views i must be a bad person.

No you keep saying things I don’t say I dont know why you reconstitute my words into sentences I did not say.Stupidity?

That makes me lol it really does. I dont think any party should be band, but history has shown both left and right are just as evil so i was simply pointing out the ironly of so called libairas wanting to ban other partys they dont like. Meaning their fascists s not liberals as a true liberal wouldn’t want to ban any thing. Sir you are a retard!

I like the use of the respectufl sir whilst calling me a retard.
Again you are the only person to mention banning here not me.

Edit: i want to live in a country were crime does not pay. I want to live in a country that uses gangsters for target practice, and were granny’s can go down the street with out getting mugged, and if that means some little shit bags get beaten to death so be it.

And I suppose you think that makes you a liberal then ?

Also there is a lot of anti china propaganda in western news papers such as the Guardian and dailmail. Most of it is shit!

yeah good point their human rights record is exemplary, their treatment of polictical opponents is also fine [ by fine I mean of course imprisonment without trial], strong upholders of democracy and individual liberties as well and they do not censor anything at all there as they just love freedom.

I oppose you because you seem to think the solution to the problem is state sanctioned brutality and you use china as an a example of this ideal state. If you could perhaps better explain why this is a good thing we may be able to have a debate. ranting about things no one but you [ and the state you cite as an example]

just watched the video, he had his hands in his pocks, he could have moved a bit faster, he hardly touched him. He was a alcoholic that was near death any way, if he wasn’t a alcoholic the fall wouldn’t have killed him.

toys19 – Member

demJeremy – Member

Should be able to get a prosecution for assault. Manslaughter? Not if he has a decent brief. IMO

Funny Kier Starmer disagree’s with you, I’d love to see you discuss it with him. WTF makes you think you know more about it than he does? He said there was a realistic prospect of a conviction? What immense legal knowledge do you have that trumps the DPP?

I don’t know more about it than him. Just my opinion based on the fact that there is a clear avenue for the defence to attack – different PMs giving different cause of death = doubt. = no conviction. That was the original CPS position.

He was a alcoholic that was near death any way, if he wasn’t a alcoholic the fall wouldn’t have killed him.

If you accept the fall killed him then if someone pushed him on purpose thats manslughter.

If you accept that the fall killed him then if he hadn’t been pushed he would still be here today. Therefore unlawful killing.

Your command of logic is poor. I don’t think you are a troll, just an effing prick.

You’re clearly not familiar with the ettiquette around here dear boy. Threads go on indefinitely and once you’re onto the second page, Hitler has to be invoked. We’re getting close to the point where the word racist has to be used. Do you want to do it? Or shall I?

Hey… I don’t make the rules

so the strong view you have before has not been altered by voiewing the incident whata surprise
I think everyone knows he was an alcoholic and that this may have contributed to his death. However it seems clear that however slowly he moved and however much he drank had he not been pushed none of the subsequent events would have occured. It is like blaiming a mugging victim for being rich and running away too slowly.

different PMs giving different cause of death = doubt. = no conviction. That was the original CPS position.

You cannot have been following the inquest then, because a clear majority of the docs gave a clear cause of death.
That is why the DPP has changed his position.

It is like blaiming a mugging victim for being rich and running away too slowly.

Or a rape victim for they way they dressed.

Godwins law doesnt apply on stw, threads go on for ages. Are you looking for an excuse to leave?

Nope

Also im not a liberal or any other kind of political sheep, i believe a wide range of things from all aspects of political doctrine. Have you ever been to china and seen it for you’re self just out of interest? It wasn’t the place i expected it to be.

Its still an avenue to attack that throws doubt on the cause of death.

We are all second guessing the jury tho befoe they have heard any evidence

He was a alcoholic that was near death any way

So just because some one has a debilitating addiction his life doesnt matter? Ok his family life and back story were not a fairy tale, but he was employed and not just living on benefits / disability due to his addiction.

As for the shove the PC clearly drops a shoulder and steps in to it with his weight. From behind when not expecting it it’s unsuprising that he went down.

if he wasn’t a alcoholic the fall wouldn’t have killed him

So if he’d merely had a congenital heart defect or a similar condition that can lead to death from a simple fall, would it still be his fault or would it suddenly become the PCs?

It wasn’t the place i expected it to be.

maybe you actually landed in scotland?

Its still an avenue to attack that throws doubt on the cause of death.

No one is arguing that, but its a lot less certain than your first statement. I’ll accept my win gratefully. 😆

Have you ever been to china and seen it for you’re self just out of interest? It wasn’t the place i expected it to be.

Did the members of the communist sing Carpenters songs on street corners, while stroking ickle fwuffy kittens?

He was a alcoholic that was near death any way, if he wasn’t a alcoholic the fall wouldn’t have killed him.
If you accept the fall killed him then if someone pushed him on purpose thats manslughter.

If you accept that the fall killed him then if he hadn’t been pushed he would still be here today. Therefore unlawful killing.

Your command of logic is poor. I don’t think you are a troll, just an effing prick.

To me he looked like he was going slow on deliberative, secondly go fall under a lorry! .

Have you ever been to china and seen it for you’re self just out of interest? It wasn’t the place i expected it to be.
Did the members of the communist sing Carpenters songs on street corners, while stroking ickle fwuffy kittens?

Nope in many ways it has become developed than this country, its the fastest developing country in human history, its amazing!

ilovemygears – he might have been however it makes no odds.

two main things to be considered:

Was the push legal, ie was it reasonable force?
Did the push led to his death?

If the answers are no and yes then its manslaughter

Oh ok. I stand corrected. If it looks ok, then it must be.

Just one question…. do you believe in Father Christmas?

ilovemygears – he might have been however it makes no odds.

two main things to be considered:

Was the push legal, ie was it reasonable force?
Did the push led to his death?

If the answers are no and yes then its manslaughter

In my view the answer the the first question in ‘YES’

yes everyohne is a sheep except you who is free ….saddly for you it is free of coherent or logically sustainable positions.
China is many things and one of those is a repressive regime however impressed/blind you were when you visited.

Oh ok. I stand corrected. If it looks ok, then it must be.

Just one question…. do you believe in Father Christmas?
No but i believe what i saw with my own eyes, go see for you’re self and then get back to me.

The tooth fairy?

two main things to be considered:

Was the push legal, ie was it reasonable force?
Did the push led to his death?

agreed TJ – as I’ve said above though, I don’t think either of those arguments are going to be simple, the legality of the push will be very technical legal argument – and I’m inclined to think that it could very well have been permissible use of force.