hammyuk – Member
Graham – no trolling at all! It’s a genuine hate of mine – I have pretty much every category possible and spend a lot of money every year in fees, insurance, tax, etc YET the vast majority of both commuting and pleasure cyclists treat the road as their own private track. Sod red lights, give ways, solid white lines, paths and the rest.

This bears no relation to my experience of the roads.

TJ I do accept that junction is not perfect, I just go into the cycle lane and take it from there, then I’m just as I would be had I come from Lauriston Place.

Have you written to th. Council about it? I’ve not experienced your problems with drivers wanting to kill me from the RHS but it does seem poorly signed for them .

Bike gps generally log their data. In car gps/satnav never log the data – is this because an incar satnav would record criminal activity in pretty much any car it would be installed in and no owner would then ever buy one.

I wonder how useful it would be to police accident investigators if an in-car satnav logged the last say 500miles of data.

gwaelod: I think some car insurers now offer discounts to drivers willing to have a “black box” fitted to their car.

http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/how-a-black-box-means-cheaper-car-insurance-for-young-drivers

I can certainly imagine a future where insurers insist that all cars are fitted with a black box to record speed, G-force, control positions and ideally video from front and rear cameras.

I just don’t get it. There’s a campaign to make cycling safer and all people on here do is whinge and whine about other cyclists breaking the rules.

My ride to work would be safer if I was given more room to ride my bike, wasn’t cut up on roundabouts, pulled out on at junctions and basically ignored by most cars as soon as the driver’s door has gone past me.

Are you lot actually cyclists or gatecrashers from pistonheads?

I only saw one cyclist whilst (driving) on the roads this morning. He was pretty exemplary – stopped at the red lights and navigated a large fast roundabout well with clear hand signals and good shoulder checks.

So if we’re allowing anecdotal evidence then my sample clearly shows that no cyclists break traffic laws 😆

I did see plenty of motorists* flouting laws though: speeding, undertaking, ignoring lane markings, driving on the wrong side of the road, not stopping at the ASL line, not stopping at a stop sign, parking illegally. Tsk tsk.

(* including me!)

Dezb – its the same any time anything like this crops up on here. Even on a cycling forum nothing must be allowed that might possibly impinge on the great god car

TJ: To be fair, the idea that cyclists should abide by the rules of the road and be held accountable for breaking those rules is perfectly reasonable (and does already happen).

However I think motorists complaints of law-breaking cyclists are extremely hypocritical and quite often just plain wrong: there are plenty of videos on YouTube of drivers lecturing cyclists about their “law breaking” when they’ve actually done nothing wrong (i.e. filtering, taking the lane, riding two abreast, using an ASL).

Personally I’ve been honked at for using a Toucan crossing and shouted at numerous times for riding on the shared-use pavement, despite signs and painted markings. Just last week I had a sweet little old lady tell me to “**** off” when I courteously stopped to let her pass safely. 😯 (she was going the other way BTW. I’m not that slow).

There was a load of criticism of “The Cycling Lawyer“‘s riding on here a while back. Worth reading his own ‘my conversion to cycling‘ piece.

He also posts a link to British Cycling’s Guide to effective traffic riding which a few people on here would do well to read.

Ooh apparently the AA have just announced that they are launching black box based car insurance too:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16969509

Not sure I agree with that BCF guide, certainly re. Roundabouts.

I see today’s headline will throw further oil on the “Red Light Jumping is Sometimes Safer” debate:

“Cyclists would have a five second head-start at dangerous junctions if Ken Livingstone is re-elected as Mayor of London “
– ”Give cyclists a head-start at traffic lights”, The Times (Feb 10th 2012)

“Granting permission to cyclists to go through red lights in certain situations could cut fatalities and serious injuries, peers have been told. In a Lords debate ministers were urged to examine a similar scheme launched in Paris this week. “
— ”Consider letting cyclists run red lights, say peers”, The Times (Feb 9th 2012)

that british cycling guide is good. Well put.

cynic al – what do you want to do at roundabouts?

Not sure I agree with that BCF guide, certainly re. Roundabouts.

Hmm.. the trouble with “thinking like a driver” on roundabouts round here is that I frequently see drivers in completely the wrong lane.

At one near my work correctly taking the inside lane for the last exit means you risk getting boxed in by cars who go all the way around in the outside lane. 👿

On another one I daily see cars swing across multiple lanes and back again.

e.g. Taking the red line scenic approach rather than the correct green line:

Even on a cycling forum nothing must be allowed that might possibly impinge on the great god car

That’s complete rubbish TJ.

What we are advocating is everyone sticking to the rules, in an effort to reduce some insanity and stop motorists hating us so much.

Molgrips – just read the thread.

We have had cyclists breaking the rules should have a license endorsed. We have had the ideas from the campaign poo pooed incase they might possibly make life harder for cars – you did that one and loads more anti bike rhetoric.

God, I find myself agreeing with TJ, what has the world come to? 😉

Some people would do well to read this as well:
http://ipayroadtax.com/

Info about why bicycle licensing doesn’t work in there too.

What we are advocating is everyone sticking to the rules, in an effort to reduce some insanity and stop motorists hating us so much.

I’m all for that, provided:
A) the rules are safe for cyclists to follow
B) more effort is put into educating drivers and cyclists on what the rules are
C) the rules are enforced

If cars were driven in line with the highway code |I wouldn’t have to go thru some traffic lights on red to maintain my safety. I would get enough time and space to ride safely.

Just go to the links to the junction I put in above and look for the cars either parked or driving legally – hardly one. Its a rare day that I see any cars being driven in accidence with the highway code.

so don’t tell me I have to compromise my safety to obey traffic law and road layouts that endanger me when so few car drivers ever obey the law.

2 second rule anyone? How about leaving room for vulnerable road users? How about obeying speed limits?

TJ just because some people are critical of cyclists and some are against measures that they feel will penalise drivers doesn’t mean your histrionic “nothing must be allowed that might possibly impinge on the great god car”.

Why does it have to be so black and white? Why should we not have balanced views rather than blindl supporting what we are told is “pro bike”?

At a multi lane roundabout I tend to take the outside lane, even turning right, I take the lane and signal right until the last exit before mine, then I signal left and move closer to the kerb. Using that BCF guide would mean I’m trying to move lane as I exit, may not be so clover if there are 30mph cars in that lane that want to go straight on (and they would be in the right lane)

I’m all for that, provided:
A) the rules are safe for cyclists to follow
B) more effort is put into educating drivers and cyclists on what the rules are
C) the rules are enforced

+1
Having rules is all well and good but I think everyone is aware of how little enforcement goes on so everyone is in a mad and mostly selfish bubble of road use.
Simple things like “merge in turn” signs where roads narrow, “give way to cyclists at traffic islands” would really help.

Completely agree TJ.

Most motorists (including me) will flagrantly break numerous traffic laws on a regular basis. But for some reason certain motorists get extremely pious when they see a cyclist breaking the law, even if it is done after careful consideration and for a good reason. It is rank hypocrisy.

ipayroadtax nails it with this:

Well thats a very dangerous way to ride a roundabout. ( asumming yo mean the left hand lane) It meand yo are riding across the exits as cars are exiting exposing your self to more danger. You are also saying you go into the kerb on the exit – again asking to get pinched.

You would be in the wrong lane.

AS for the pro bike measures – anytime anything pro bike ins mentioned on here a significant number of folk will shout out agaist it on grounds is unfair to car drivers – loads of example on this thread

AS for the pro bike measures – anytime anything pro bike ins mentioned on here a significant number of folk will shout out agaist it on grounds is unfair to car drivers – loads of example on this thread

Had to check I hadn’t stumbled across the Daily Mail comments page for a moment. 😉

TandemJeremy – Member
Well thats a very dangerous way to ride a roundabout. ( asumming yo mean the left hand lane) It meand yo are riding across the exits as cars are exiting exposing your self to more danger. You are also saying you go into the kerb on the exit – again asking to get pinched.

You would be in the wrong lane.

Is that your opinion or fact? I guess the danger of being in the outside lane is balanced against forcing yourself to cross into it as you exit…isn’t one meant to exit from the LH lane? If so then I think my way is safer. And I said “closer to the kerb” not “into” it – how much I move would depend on the layout.

Anyway you appear to be advising against the Highway Code, correct?

I guess my point is that I don’t see that there are absolute hard and fast rules like this – it can depend on the circumstances, including the cyclist, how fast thy can pedal, how comfortable they are being overtaken. I am comfortable not always going as far as BC or whoever- and when even they disagree with the Highway Code, can’t you see it’s not black and white?

AS for the pro bike measures – anytime anything pro bike ins mentioned on here a significant number of folk will shout out agaist it on grounds is unfair to car drivers – loads of example on this thread

So you are saying they’re not entitled to their opinions? You are right and they are wrong? What?

You need to read that guide again to understand the safe way of riding roundabouts.
I find the constant anti bike pro car comments on a supposed cyclist site like this hard to fathom. Any measures that would imporve the lot of bikes but might possible slow cars a tiny amount are decried by a significant number of posters on here

isn’t one meant to exit from the LH lane?

Nope. Not necessarily on a multi-lane roundabout. See my annotated aerial image above.

Anyway you appear to be advising against the Highway Code, correct?

The Highway Code makes special allowances for cyclists staying in the left lane as you describe, but it is one of these things that drivers won’t expect and will no doubt tell you is illegal.

Drivers expect you to do this:

(or some random local variant of it)

Thats the way I’d navigate a (normal) roundabout Graham.

(I say normal as most round here have been completely screwed by having the names of the exits randomly painted in the lanes.)

Molgrips – just read the thread.

I have read it, I just gained a different impression to you. That does not mean I’m wrong of course.

The idea about licensing cyclists was roundly dismissed if I remember correctly.

I find it hard to believe that you are assuming an anti cyclist bias on a cycling forum. You MUST admit that there’s a good chance you’ve mis-interpreted posts. Surely?!

[edited, as inhouse bickering is off topic and utterly pointless]

Shame you’ve ignored most of my questions TJ.

I don’t see how what I have said about the BC guide is incorrect.

Cynic – al – ‘cos they are demonstrable nonsense.

I only posted hoping yo would be open minded enough to maybe learn and perhaps be a safer more confident rider

Want it picked apart?

guess my point is that I don’t see that there are absolute hard and fast rules like this

So just ignore the highway code then? thats a hard and fast set of rules

So you are saying they’re not entitled to their opinions? You are right and they are wrong? What?

try reading what I wrote

Can’t be bothered with any more

molgrips

I find it hard to believe that you are assuming an anti cyclist bias on a cycling forum. You MUST admit that there’s a good chance you’ve mis-interpreted posts. Surely?!

Not at all – its constant theme on here from a sizable number of posters finding reasons why any pro bike measures cannot be done..

I find the constant anti bike pro car comments on a supposed cyclist site like this hard to fathom. Any measures that would imporve the lot of bikes but might possible slow cars a tiny amount are decried by a significant number of posters on here

Likewise – I’ve seen a lot of the posts TJ’s referring to. Trail centre culture? Your bike goes in the car to get somewhere you ride then you drive back again and never actually ride your bike in traffic. Those road cyclists just get in your way while you’re driving there.

Not at all – its constant theme on here

I don’t read it that way at all.

I think people often point out why things haven’t been done, or why they might not work. I don’t think people don’t WANT them done.

Likewise – I’ve seen a lot of the posts TJ’s referring to. Trail centre culture? Your bike goes in the car to get somewhere you ride then you drive back again and never actually ride your bike in traffic. Those road cyclists just get in your way while you’re driving there.

would agree with that and wasn’t there a thread a few weeks back with quite a list of posters saying they didn’t even ride at all?