"We can't debate why the Muslim community have been ramping up their crusade to convert ethnic communities to a much more authoritarian Islamic doctrine. Challenging this would be so politically incorrect"
I like your post, but the fact is this IS being debated at all levels, it's not a taboo subject at all.
Northwind - Member"We can't debate why the Muslim community have been ramping up their crusade to convert ethnic communities to a much more authoritarian Islamic doctrine. Challenging this would be so politically incorrect"
I like your post, but the fact is this IS being debated at all levels, it's not a taboo subject at all.
Government actively discussing this subject then...
Government actively discussing this subject then...
That is correct Slapper - well done !
In fact some would say that it is something of an obsession with this government.
Gordon Brown :
"I want to update the House, as I promised in July, on the measures we are taking at home - following the incidents on June 29th and June 30th - both to root out terrorism and to strengthen the resilience of communities to resist extreme influence measures that to succeed will require not just military and security resources but more policing, more intelligence, and an enhanced effort to win hearts and minds.
From the Home Office budget, from now until 2011, an additional £240 million will finance counter terrorism policing - focused as much on preventing the next generation of terrorists as pursuing current targets.
And this will include additional funding for further training of our 3,500 neighbourhood police teams to deal with radicalisation in their local communities.
I can confirm £70 million is being invested in community projects devoted to countering violent extremism.
So to deal with the challenge posed by this terrorist threat we have to do more, working with communities in our countries:
# First to challenge extremist propaganda and support alternative voices
# Second, to disrupt the promoters of violent extremism by strengthening our institutions and supporting individuals who may be targeted
# Third, to increase the capacity of communities to resist and reject violent extremism
# And fourth, to address issues of concern exploited by ideologues and where by emphasising our shared values across communities we can both celebrate and act upon what unites us
This will be achieved not by one single programme or initiative and it won't be achieved overnight.
It is a generational challenge which requires sustained work over the long term and by a range of actions in schools, colleges, universities, faith groups and youth clubs; by engaging particular young people through the media, culture, sport and arts; and by acting against extremist influences operating on the internet and in institutions from prisons to universities and some places of worship.
As part of intensifying measures to isolate extremism, a new unit bringing together police and security intelligence and research will identify, analyse and assess not just the inner circle of extremist groups but those at risk of falling under their influence - and share their advice and insights.
Building on initial roadshows of mainstream Islamic scholarship around the country, which have already attracted over 70,000 young people, and an internet site which has reached far more, we will sponsor at home and then abroad, including for the first time in Pakistan, a series of national and local events to counter extremist propaganda.
And the next stage will draw on the work commissioned by the Economic and Social Research Council, Kings College and the Royal Society for Arts on how best to deal with radicalisation at home and abroad.
One central issue is how to balance extremist views supporting terrorism which appear on the internet and media.
The Home Secretary is inviting the largest global technology and internet companies to work together to ensure that our best technical expertise is galvanised to counter online incitement to hatred.
I also welcome the decision by the Royal Television Society and Society of Newspaper Editors to hold a conference on how to ensure accurate and balanced reporting of issues related to terrorism in the media.
To ensure charities are not exploited by extremists, a new unit in the Charity Commission will strengthen governance and accountability.
A specialist unit in the Prisons Service will be tasked with stopping extremists using prison networks to plot future activities.
And because young people in the criminal justice system are especially vulnerable to extremist influences, we are making further funding available through the Youth Justice Board, the National Offenders Management Service and the many voluntary agencies that work with young people in trouble to support young people who may be targeted for recruitment by extremist groups.
Following evidence that some of those involved in promoting violent extremism have made use of outdoor activity sports centres and facilities, we are working with Sport England to provide guidance for the sector to ensure that these facilities are not abused.
And backed up by a new website to share best practice, a new board of experts will advise local authorities, local councillors and local communities on tackling those promoting hate.
e have had mosques in the UK for more than a hundred years, serving local communities well.
These communities tell me that mosques have a much wider role beyond their core spiritual purpose in providing services, educating young people and building cohesion - and the majority already work very hard to reject violent extremism.
As the newly constituted Mosques and Imams National Advisory Body recognises however, the governance of mosques could be strengthened to help serve communities better and to challenge those who feed hate.
Our consultations with Muslim communities emphasise the importance of the training of imams, including English language requirements - and the Secretary for Communities will be announcing an independent review to examine, with the communities, how to build the capacity of Islamic seminaries, learning from other faith communities as well as experience overseas.
In addition to updated advice for universities on how to deal with extremism on the campus, the Secretary for Skills and the Higher Education Minister will invite universities to lead a debate on how we maintain academic freedom whilst ensuring that extremists can never stifle debate or impose their views.
And we will now consult also on how we can support further education colleges as well as universities.
And the Secretary of State for Culture is working with the museums, libraries and archives council to agree a common approach to deal with inflammatory and extremist material that some now seek to distribute through public libraries, whilst also protecting freedom of speech.
We know that young people of school age can be exposed to extremist messages.
The Secretary of State for Children will be convening a new forum of headteachers to advise on what more we can do to protect young people and build bridges across communities.
And to ensure young people have the opportunity to learn about diversity and faith in modern Britain, we will work in partnership with religious education teachers to promote the national framework for teaching religious education in schools including making sure children learn about all faiths.
An advisory group will work with local communities to support citizenship education classes run by mosque schools in Bradford and elsewhere.
And I can announce that one essential part of this will be to twin schools of different faiths with our £2 million pound school linking programme, supported by a new national website and School Linking Network.
Mr Speaker, it is by seeking to build on shared interests and shared values that we will isolate extremists and foster understanding across faiths.
Mr Speaker, there is no greater priority than the safety and security of our people and building the strongest possible relationships across all faiths and communities - and I believe it possible, with the actions we are proposing, to build a stronger consensus that will both root out terrorist extremism and build more vibrant and cohesive communities."
How's that ?
How's that ?
Weak.
How many individuals does it take to wage a terrorist campaign - with tacit, if not actual support of their communities? You really have no idea.
It's a sticking plaster on a problem that's here already. 99.9999% of Irish people are fine its the 0.0001% thats the issue - same with any religion, race or creed. Your government speaks and you believe - really without question?
Be as glib as you like - what Ober Lieutenant Von Brun does not seem or want to understand religion in its tribal sense - my god is bigger than your god etc. That drivel above demonstrates that in its entirity.
Truth is I don't have the answers, but the truth lies in people fully engaging and being part of this country.
Might have a look at this in the morning.
Is there actually anything of any intelligence, or is it just the usual Little Englander bullshit you usually get on here (can't be bothered to trawl through all the posts)?
Is Hora spouting his usual Tesco's own brand bollocks?
Ban everything, I say. And let people do whatever they please.
I only got up for a piss...
a custom that classes women alongside barnyard animals is offensive, at best.
Who told you about that???? I deny it all, anyway that last sheep baa'ed at me in a provocative way and wiggled its bottom, definately a willing partner..
Rudeboy, not like you. Usually you post a 5,000 essay on every post
He just got up for a piss. When he needs a shit we can expect a full Rudist monograph complete with mis-spelling and pretend gangsta hand gestures.
listened to BBC R4 woman's hour about a group of muslim women who are in fear of their lives. Honour killings, forced marriages. All sorts of abuses of human rights brought about by Islamic culture.
It is true every womans refuge centre in the UK is full of Muslim women ...the staff there often comment about how amasing it is that no non muslim women are ever seen in these places or assaulted, abused, beaten or raped by their partners or husbands and what an amasing culture of tolerance and respect we have for women that means we NEVER mistreat them 
Junkyard shut up. Seriously.
Burkas strike me as rather odd, and I'm not confident that I understand the mentality which leads to the wearing of them, or leads to people pressuring other people to wear them.
However, I'm afraid we do have to accept that large numbers of muslim women cover up (even if they do not do the full burka) entirely voluntarily and because they feel that this is morally, religiously and/or culturally superior to the very high levels of public semi-nudity and sexualisation that we are used to.
Now, there may be a real problem with human rights lurking around down there for some (possibly for many) people. But I can understand why any woman wouldn't necessarily want to be on the receiving end of my own slightly predatory semi-staring in the street, or the incredible rash of comments that anyone who accidentally posts a picture of their wife looking a bit tubby gets on here, or the leering that a picture of Megan Fox in hotpants gets etc etc.
I suspect that part of the hostility to muslim women covering up is that it makes the rest of us feel judged, whether we are women wandering around in minimal clothing or men who like to peer at women. And we don't like feeling judged.
Banning one woman from wearing what she wants to so that everyone else can get on with "appreciating" tiny little shorts seems odd. 
Junkyard shut up. Seriously.
Hora - I must say I'm a wee bit lost also by your outburst?
Admittedly Junkyard perhaps over generalised but there appears some truth in what he says - no?
Sorry. I would get involved, but I'm too ill. 
I love girls with seriously-toned legs in short skirts.
Tea Leoni in Bad Boys, her legs there were the ultimate for me 
Hora is generally a weathervane, and there are very, very few things on which he has a reasonably constant and unwavering opinion. His fear and horror of islam however has been a consistent feature of his online persona for as long as I can remember. You are baiting him on possibly the only authentic belief he has. Tread carefully.
Sufism. I think I could give that branch some less 'general' heat. Sufi poetry. Magical.
Admittedly Junkyard perhaps over generalised but there appears some truth in what he says - no?
Yes and no.
Yes there are instances of terrible abuse in this country. The No bit being that this abuse is not sanctioned, legitimised and perpertuated by our legal system.
Really?
I suspect that part of the hostility to muslim women covering up is that it makes the rest of us feel judged, whether we are women wandering around in minimal clothing or men who like to peer at women. And we don't like feeling judged.
I don't feel judged whatever i'm wearing and frankly I couldn't give a damn what people think of how I look, REALLY!
The speech from Gordaon sounds good, but in practice, will it make things better, or will minorities feel undermined by the increased surveillance and invasion of privacy? You can just hear them all complaining about being victimised. Like black people and stop and search issue many years ago. You have to rely on these people to self-regulate themselves, but this clearly hasn't stopped this threat to our security. If we let it go, we'll end up with the same strife that's afflicting Pakistan.
I'm really dubious about any plan to fix this. You can't interfere with dogma. Remember that "rule by the rod" religions don't tolerate descent, where free thinking and questioning the scriptures is literally punishable by death. (yes this really is happening still).
You can begin to see why Henry the 8th decided on the disolution of the monasteries. Religion is a powerful monster, it controls so many gullible people and is incredibly dangerous.
tankslapper - Member"How's that ?"
Weak.
It's a sticking plaster on a problem that's here already.
I wasn't asking if you agreed to what Brown was saying Slapper - it goes without saying that you were going to disagree with him !
I was asking how's that for an example of the "government actively discussing this subject" ........... I think you asked the question - remember ?
Ernie - you're right! 
Ernie - you're right!
WTF you playing at mate ? ............. what do you mean I'm 'right' ? 
Play by the rules Slapper - and don't use devious tactics 
Nevermind Sarkozy and his hot wife. Just look at the 71yr old Billionaire in Italy. Boy does he know how to live out his last years in STYLE!
and what does our one-eyed Scottish idiot do?
Personally I can't stand the burka wearing women dressing me with their eyes
LOL @ Sandwich !
I neither like nor dislike islam nor muslims but I would like all of the muslim women to wear Burkas. Not because I think they should be subservient to males or for any other religious or political reason but because they're **** ugly.
Not because I think they should be subservient to males or for any other religious or political reason but because they're **** ugly.
I'd like to beat you to a pulp for being shit stupid but i don't think the law would let me. The law is an ass.
I had a ex of Pakistani-origin who wasnt ugly. She was cute. We broke up as around the time there was alot of inter-racial fights in my hometown and it just wasnt safe for her or me. No, the whites werent to blame then.
Heathen you're welcome to try however I think you may come unstuck.
Ok I am sorry for making a poor joke about a topic people feel so strongly about, bad taste but no offence meant.
hora - MemberI had a ex of Pakistani-origin who wasnt ugly. She was cute. We broke up as around the time there was alot of inter-racial fights in my hometown and it just wasnt safe for her or me. No, the whites werent to blame then.
I went out with a catholic girl, she was gorgeous. We broke up as it was unsafe for both of us - now that sounds familiar!
That's the point I'm trying to make here - ernie I agree that the government is trying something - it's just I've seen sectarianism first hand and its the last thing I'd want to see in this country.
I went out with three Irish Catholic girls, two were best friends, the other was a sister of one. Gawd, why was I such an utter slag in my youth again? 
Irish Catholic girls - aaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhh!
Benefits of a convent education! 
Amelia, Roseen and Lena. The ****-bank may be abit out of date but the memories, eeee
In the '80s and '90s the difference between me and the RUC in Northern Ireland was the girls didnt mind me going in and out of Catholic areas....
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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