A quick look at the profits and dividends generated by the utility companies in the UK today leads me to believe that if the government had retained a major stake in them then not only would income be generated for the taxpayer but the government would have far greater say in when it comes to price hikes,director pay and bonuses,infrastructure investment and the like.
As I asked days ago where did all the money from privitisation and oil revenue go under Thatcher?
Where did the £22billion go Labour?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/727831.stm
Oh and on Utility companies- cronic under investment and high prices to consumers means big profits are there.
Need investment to rebuild/improve the creaking infrastructure? You ask the government for a loan and/or make your customers pay even more.
She's going to have part of Madrid named after her...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/12/margaret-thatcher-madrid-street-name?CMP=twt_fd
As for Northern Rock what was the alternative?
Savers losing their savings,staff being laid off with no redundancy pay apart from what the givernment would have been obliged to pay,all other banks that were owed money from NR getting into trouble and a possible run on the banking system?
Or share the pain by the government bailing them out?
As a miner said to me regarding any ballot. "Why do they want a ballot? It's because they want to vote against the strike but not be seen doing it! You know where you stand, if you were going to vote Yes you'll be out in any case".
Deregulation introduced by Margaret Thatcher was long overdue and was a positive in many cases opening up state monopolies to competiton to the benefit of the consumer.Replacing state monopolies with private ones isn't good and selling off the nation's assets isn't either.
Not exactly a wild free-for-all.
Very selective list that teamhurtmore. Seems a lot like you've included all the pro's but none of the con's. Things like the demutualisation of the building societies, the removal of controls on credit and so forth and so on to name but two.
Where did the £22billion go Labour?
Restoring the shambles left by the previous 18 years at a rough guess, pretty much like will happen post this bunch when they go. Simple current example: Lack of proper road maintainence, the road network is in the process of falling apart. It is blatantly obvious that the current lack of proper maintainence is going to lead to massive future costs.
Nothing more to say currently, as I'm steadfastly maintaining my dignified leftist stance to the old bats passing.
Except that the current 'lot' are dealing with labours malcompetence.
Except that the current 'lot' are dealing with labours malcompetence.
At what point does the current government have to start taking some responsibility for our current predicament? Never according to some people.
They're not 'dealing' with anything other than their own self-serving ideologically driven political agenda.
You may not have noticed (unbelievable, I know) but their policies are having the exact opposite effect of their stated aim. The deficit is going UP!!
It is odd with politicians.
They can point to every single minute flaw in their predecssers policies but absolutley none of the ones in the policies they bring in to replace them.
Well done Grum- I said by the time they are in their SECOND term
Berm Bandit - Member
Not exactly a wild free-for-all.
Very selective list that teamhurtmore.
Very true BB and wasn't meant to be otherwise. Merely pointing out that the changes in the city in the early 1980s were not quite as they seemed. I didn't mean to make that a pro v con list - rather that changes also included important regulation and re-regulation. The rapid rise in Fin Services pre and post dated Thatcher but she is often portrayed as being the woman who created a free-for-all. As i have said before, she must have had mystical powers if that were true.
Chart 1 on page 14 of this gives a useful perspective of the dramatic rise in FS in the UK
Well done Grum- I said by the time they are in their SECOND term
Where did you say that? About who? What [i]are[/i] you talking about? MATRON!!
I'll say one thing for you lefties (and plastic-communists like binners), you have staying power (well not in politics but hey).
Are you all related to TJ? 😆
Hora. You're blathering again.....
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You are the living embodiment of the experiment involving limitless monkies with keyboards. I'm convinced of it
binners - Member
They're not 'dealing' with anything other than their own self-serving ideologically driven political agenda.
So what part of [i]any[/i] political "agenda" does dealing with large and unsustainable levels of debt belong to?
Add a broken banking system on top and starts to make life difficult for anyone in charge.
They are making mistakes for sure, but like most parties of all persuasions in large parts of the developed world, their hands are firmly constrained by the legacy of the past. Hence, I fail to see how you can make these easy distinctions between its the Tories' fault or Labour's fault. Its all inter-twined. Just look at what Hollande is saying then doing in France.
yes the deficit that is SO important to their 'virility' has risen, but there is a huge bubble going to burst --money printing or the polite term to fool people --QEasing -- is the throw of last resort--US, UK and now Japan are engaged in this deperate attempt to defy the 'markets' --the shrewdies in US are dumping all their stock in the consumer economy--preparing for the worst-- inflation will soon take off, housing market will collapse and the rest of you can join those of us who have nothing--- fun times for all.....
I agree with you THM. As you clearly know a thing or two about economics, what do you think the long term results will be be of the present economic policy*? Where do you see it leaving us in 10 years, say?
Do you think this is a permanent adjustment to a low skill, low wage economy, now in terminal decline? And that we're just going to have to accept ever falling living standards? And this is what Thatcher referred in Liverpool - 'managed decline'
* The term 'policy' is used figuratively in this instance
Rudebwoy - you should add that QE is also hidden theft. At least in Cyprus, you can see what you are dealing with. But when governments distort interest rates, repress savers etc, they are guilty of being deliberately dishonest!
[The shrewdies may not be shrewd if the US markets continue to hit highs. They may be right in the LT, but in the short term they need to remain solvent!]
Rudebwoy,
Here are some simple undisputable facts for you;
Coal production was in decline.
Pits were being closed down.
Miners went on strike.
All before Thatcher. 💡
You may also want to take note of the amount of support that Scargill has been shown on these pages, which appear to be mainly inhabited by those of a left wing persuasion.
Clue: it's not a lot.
thm-- you should know that the market goes to the top before its collapse--knowing when to get out is the shrewdies mark-- Buffet and his gang are doing that now-- you cannot have a disparity that the us economy has become, going in that direction forever-- its fairly obvious to me--and i'm an unemployed joiner who takes an interest in the world-- tis the history of capitalism -- oh and yes the dipping into peoples bank accounts is crude but honest--the methods used here are much more subtle and dip into certain sections of society but not the Rich-- oh and they convince simple minded people that we are all in the same boat, and there is no alternative-- tragic...
rudebwoy - Memberi'm an unemployed joiner
Lots of work for skilled joiners in my area (Cambs). 🙂
good for you--long way from my yard--
I'll have a spare room in my house from mid May. 😀
Except that the current 'lot' are dealing with labours malcompetence.
With the modest exception that the current scenario has much to do with a global economic problem, which if I'm not much mistaken has in turn much to do with the shennigans perpertrated by the financial institutions of the entire world, but largely preciptiated by the actions of one M. Thatcher and one R.Reagan in the 1980's.
You can of course argue about the need for prudence in preparation for said event, but before that can any of us here smugly own up to having made a fortune from correctly prediciting the crash of 2008? In which case I will of course acknowledge that it was utterly obvious to all.
but before that can any of us here can smugly own up to having made a fortune from correctly prediciting the crash of 2008?
I predicted it in 1997. 😉
😆
fortune? do tell sbob
largely preciptiated by the actions of one M. Thatcher and one R.Reagan in the 1980's
really?
Binners, in short, I do not accept the fatalist arguments that we are necessarily in long term decline, nor that we will be a low wage/low skilled economy. But the prospects for the low skilled in the UK and the rest of the developed world are genuinely frightening (hence my personal interest in education). There was an interesting article in the FT a few days ago ( http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d69ec792-9e08-11e2-9ccc-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2QFuMj3Zz) which shifts the inequality argument from the UK-centric one, to a global one which says that global inequality is reducing in a positive manner (across nations if not within them). But this has inevitably negative consequences for the low skilled in developed nations such as the UK. There is no doubt IMO that the UK and other developed economies will grow much slower than other parts of the world. If you lack skills in this environment, you will face a very bleak future indeed. And frankly Mrs T was correct in her widely misquoted, "there is not such thing as society speech." Her real message - that it is foolish to expect governments to supply the answers - is probably more relevant today than it was at the time. I fear that those who expect governments of any party to look after them in old age will be bitterly disappointed.
Again IMO there are three key obstacles to growth - excess levels of debt (household, banks, governments), a broken € zone and the lack of corporate confidence. Corporate UK has a lot of cash ready to invest but they lack the confidence to go ahead and put it to work. Dealing with the first two will take many years - which plays into Labour's hands since there will be no dramatic return to growth in the UK. Their risks are welfare, where rightly or wrongly, they are losing the battle in the media and in the minds of the public. But the "joker" is factor three. If corporate UK gains confidence then investment "could" well accelerate faster than people think. There is a hidden element of this in current labour statistics where the private sector is showing signs of recovery. Personally, I think it will take really positive news from Europe for this to happen fully and I cant see that in the short term. But that is Cameron's wild card and Labour would be foolish to ignore it IMO. Maybe that is what triggered Blair to write his article in the New Statesman?
[quote=Berm Bandit said]
You can of course argue about the need for prudence in preparation for said event,
I guess GB really believed he'd got rid of boom and bust. Ooops!
You can of course argue about the need for prudence in preparation for said event, but before that can any of us here smugly own up to having made a fortune from correctly prediciting the crash of 2008? In which case I will of course acknowledge that it was utterly obvious to all.
Well, not a fortune as that would have required one to start with. But I predicted its inevitability from 2003 and acted in summer 2007 to protect what I had. No inside knowledge, just an accountant who took an interest in the data available.
Those in government and opposition with greater resources behind them should have made better decisions.
I made nothing, but was predicting it from 2004. I worked in the construction industry and decided to change jobs to try and get into a more secure career.
Also saw it about 3 months before the big crash as was trying to re jig a couple of credit cards to a loan and I was finding it impossible to get a load, which 3 years earlier I could get 5 loads a day for a month. It's was madness I back in 2001-2006
Berm Bandit - Memberfortune? do tell sbob
No, I didn't make any money out of it, I'm quite poor. 😀
[i]Runs through the thread naked swinging tally-whacker like a elephants trunk[/i]
I fear that those who expect governments of any party to look after them in old age will be bitterly disappointed
Does that include public sector pensions?
Should I bail out now?
I thought the prioperty market was going to crash in 2005 so sold my house and rented. What an idiot I was until 2008.
You may not have noticed (unbelievable, I know) but their policies are having the exact opposite effect of their stated aim. The deficit is going UP!!
yes the deficit that is SO important to their 'virility' has risen
Where do you get your figures from?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data
thm, the US economy is still the world's largest and most influental, a chill there, and the rest of the world catches a cold-- individual govt have no power to prevent such, all they can do is make the best of a bad job and spread the pain or gain in an equitable manner--ideally of course.
Since we do not live in such a place, things will be a lot different depending on which strata of society you inhabit....
to attempt to portray the Arthur Scargill as some sort of equivalent to Thatcher shows how bankrupt your thinking and ideology must be.
Well to be fair, she expected the whole country to pay to keep her when she was no longer doing anything useful, Arthur only expected the 2000 or so miners left to pay to support him.
dangerousbeans - Member
I fear that those who expect governments of any party to look after them in old age will be bitterly disappointed
Does that include public sector pensions?
For sure and the appropriate advice should be given now to all members of such schemes. There are NHS staff that are told that since the pension fund is currently self funded that this means that it is sustainable. They, in particular, need to be properly advised IMO.
But if governments are going to continue to (indirectly) rob us of the correct returns on our savings then knowing where best to invest your money is another challenge completely. But at least the last few years have quashed one idea on its head - the risk-free return!
I love the way the hills of dorset warp news as its gently rolls over the fields... a short poem by my local barman and poet.
“Thatcher Dead” they said
Someone’s fallen off a roof
I thought to myself
by elvis mcgonagall, april 2013
brakes - Member
largely preciptiated by the actions of one M. Thatcher and one R.Reagan in the 1980's
really?
Yes Really!
allthepies - Member
Berm Bandit said »
You can of course argue about the need for prudence in preparation for said event,
I guess GB really believed he'd got rid of boom and bust. Ooops!
I think you may be mistaking me for someone who thinks GB is some form of hero
sbob - Member
Berm Bandit - Member
fortune? do tell sbob
No, I didn't make any money out of it, I'm quite poor
🙂
Thought not. I did have you down as a post event smarty pants, so it appears that I'm not going to be disappointed.
Berm Bandit - MemberThought not. I did have you down as a post event smarty pants, so it appears that I'm not going to be disappointed.
So what should I have done?
Seeing as you are so obviously aware of all my circumstances over the last 16 years. ❓
So what should I have done?
Hey you're the guy who knows things in advance, you figure it out.
