A topic I feel has probably been covered before. But allow me the indulgence of a rant, as today was my first experience of the unbridled joy that trying to get a bike on a Virgin Train is. Jesus! It'd be easier to actually gain egress to a genuine Virgin. A decent looking one. Over the age of 20. In a *ing sink estate in South London
FFS! Which muppet was in charge of designing those *ing things. Perish the thought that you might be able to do something as *ing revolutionary as open the door to the bike storage, and simply put your bike on the train. Oh no. Where's the fun in that? You have to get the 'train manager' to do it for you. Luckily Virgin have eradicated any potential problems on this front by scouring the country for the most petty, small-minded half-witted *-wits to fulfill this role.
When stood by the train door the following constructive exchange took place:
Can I get my bike on please mate?
Have you made a reservation?
No
You need to make a reservation.
I didn't know that. Can I get my bike on please mate?
No. You've not made a reservation.
What? I didn't know I had to make a reservation. The bike storage is empty. Can I get my bike on please?
No. You need to make a reservation?
Oh FFS? Its empty. The train is leaving in 2 minutes. I'm on my way to work. Can I get my bike on please?
No. You haven't made a reservation.
At this point, Another member of staff intervened and opened the door for me.
You couldn't ****ing well make it up. Gggggggrrrrrrrr
But you hadn't made a reservation....
Complain to Virgin. I absolutely hate using their trains for exactly that reason.
It may be childish, but I have sent a letter of complaint every time I'ver used their trains in the last 6 months - just printed out a template and mailed it. They need to know how stupid the situation is, and how rude their staff can be.
I know. This is where it starts. And before you know it..... ANARCHY!!!
Contrast this with the service I had from Virgin on a train from London to Lancaster a few years ago...
Wheel bike up platform, try to find train manager to open the door and in the end resort to knocking on the drivers cab.
Driver came back, opened the door to the bike storage area, looked at the bike and said "I've got a Langster as well but in brown". There followed a short chat about our respective singlespeeds, he asked where I was getting off and sure enough, got to Lancaster and the driver was stood on the platform holding the bike for me. 🙂
But what if five mins later after you had 'blagged' your bike onto the train, a couple of people with reservations ruck up with bikes and find that there isn't room for them anymore?
It got better too. A rather nice female roadie got on after me. She was getting off at the same stop as me.
When we arrived it became clear we'd forgotten about and would soon be on our way to London. So she said 'oh well' and managed to open the door. She'd clearly done this before.
So, for future reference, should you need to know... You can open the door to the cycle storage on a Virgin train by jamming your sunglasses into the door-opening-thingmajig and twisting them. Though the afore-mentioned 'train manager' will not be best pleased with you for doing so 😀
it's not brilliant is it.
you should have made a reservation though, it's not that hard to find out you need to on the website.
Can't really blame the train manager, if someone got on at the next station who had made a reservation then you'd have been kicked off.
This has happened to us but luckily the train manager took pity on the (sexy) french girls and let them stay on with their bikes.
Done a lot of long distance train travel with bikes in the last year and experience has on the whole been positive but you soon learn to jump through the hoops and get your reservations sorted
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One return journey
2 people
2 bicycles
24 tickets!
recently did bolton to inverness return with bikes for £52 each first class
I guess it must be the luck of the draw but I never have a problem on the Chiltern service. Just rock up each morning and usually get a carriage to myself 🙂 Even when its busy on the home leg everyone mucks in and stacks their bikes in order to allow each other to get off when their stop comes.
There is always that sort of self important t0$$er though that sticks to the rules just for the sake of it. 🙁
Well Virgin trains must be run by Labour then and driven by Lib Dems! 😕
As per Nick's comments, it may be pre-reserved by someone else and you've just ****ed up their plans because you're disorganised.
Dear god. There's me complaining about small-minded pettyness and forgetting where i was.
Could you possibly update me as to how the **** we've ever managed to get to this stage in our evolutionary process without having reserved places for our bikes in the past? I'm surprised the world hasn't stopped turning and the sky fallen in.
Guess what? It hasn't and it won't
like i said it's not ideal but applying the rules is not small minded pettiness. It's just the system which is rubbish, there is no statutory requirement for train operators to carry bikes but people like CTC are tirelessly campaigning for change either through government (when we eventually get one) or directly with the operators.
coffeeking - MemberAs per Nick's comments, it may be pre-reserved by someone else and you've just ****ed up their plans because you're disorganised.
If you;re using the train for commuting, do you really want to be reserving a ticket each way each day? fine if you're doing a one off big trip, but you shouldn't need to do it for regular journeys 🙄
It was the first time I've travelled on Virgin and I genuinelly didn't know I had to make a reservation
Its the system I'm criticising. It seems plain daft to me. Haven't we had a government that for some time has been banging on about the 'Integrated Transport Policy' mentioned in the title. Yet the ability for trains to carry bikes is little more than a token gesture? And one bitterly resented by the looks of it
They should have more of the disabled carriages when needed on the commuting trains. Seems straight forward to make a note of amount of regular cycles on a given route and accomodate them... or is that far too simplistic?
sadly policy seems to concentrate on storage and access to stations although all parties claimed to be aiming towards more access on the actual trains themselves
personally i'd happily pay to take my bike on the train if it meant i could guarantee a safe place for the bike and easier access to and from the train at stations and room for more than 2 or 3 bikes
If you;re using the train for commuting, do you really want to be reserving a ticket each way each day? fine if you're doing a one off big trip, but you shouldn't need to do it for regular journeys
You're either needing to book them or not, they don't know what journey length you're doing.
They should have more of the disabled carriages when needed on the commuting trains. Seems straight forward to make a note of amount of regular cycles on a given route and accomodate them... or is that far too simplistic?
That sounds very expensive.
Bring back slam door trains with huge mail cars.
I really can't see why there should be a problem travelling without a reservation - if someone else comes on [i]with[/i] a reservation they should just make you get off.
So what happens if I have to work late one evening then? Is the booking transferable?
I can just imagine the bureaucratic meltdown that would occur if i wanted to do such a thing?
CaptJon has it, made it much easier.
i'd rather be told i can't get on the train at my start point than kicked off the train at some random station
it does get even more stupid though, the wife wanted to use B2W to get to work in milton keynes by train and bike but you aren't aloud to take a bike through MK station between 8am and 9am 😯
she had to buy a folder for that reason and has to fold the bike up for the walk through the station (and also gets round needing a bike res on the train)
Get a folding bike simples!
I'm not wild about Virgin, but in fairness if you [i]have[/i] got a reservation it's usually reasonably smooth.
Out of interest, what proportion of an adult fare would people be prepared to pay for no-reservation bike space on fast trains? I reckon about 1/3 would be fair...
you cant really quantify it like that BD, fares vary so much.
I'd happily pay about 10% of the full flexible ticket price but that could amount to nearer 80% of the discount ticket price.
for instance for our summer trip last year i'd happily have paid an extra £30 or £40 for the bikes but our (super save mega cheap completely inflexible advance) tickets were £200 cheaper than the normal fare
BD - Don't let Virgin hear you saying that. Depressingly: I can imagine that'll already be on their agenda
True, true.
Absolutely everyone involved with British railways at the moment needs their heads banging together, for so many reasons. 🙂
true of a lot of the management i think, i've had overwhelmingly positive experiences with on train and station staff though.
Other passengers could do with a jump as well, their attitude seems to be a little like most drivers attitude to cyclists on the road. A mere inconvenience with no particular right to be there.
It's one of these things, sometimes I have been annoyed at NOT being able to make a reservation for a bike.
Like when using the train to go biking somewhere up north but the "journey isn't long enough" to warrant a booking so you just have to turn up and hope! (This is Scotrail by the way not Virgin)
It can really ruin your day out in the hills if you don't get on the right train...
I think more bike capacity is the, not unreasonable, way forward.
never had a problem even for short journeys on scotrail euan, in fact scotrail seem to be one of the best set up to cope with cycles. They all seem to vary massively though and more capacity is the way ahead but not necessarily financially viable with old rolling stock and no change to pricing structures
All the people flexing their hindsight and suggesting he get a reservation seem to be unaware of the fact that the maximum number of reservations on Virgin Cross Country trains is two. And they have three bike spaces in total. Yes, three. Want to travel somewhere with three of your mates? Tough.
Oh and folding bikes are overpriced noddy toss, and if you have one it's the equivalent of bending over and taking it from Richard Branson. 🙂
I'm with you there fella. If i was about to get another bike, there's an awful lot on the shopping list before some noddy folder. I wouldn't be seen dead on one 😀
me either, but then i'm never really going to be able to cycle commute.
mrsmw isn't aloud to ride anywhere near me on hers
I fear that Virgin Rail's policy will not be greatly affected by this heroic stand, sadly. 🙂
All the people flexing their hindsight and suggesting he get a reservation seem to be unaware of the fact that the maximum number of reservations on Virgin Cross Country trains is two. And they have three bike spaces in total. Yes, three. Want to travel somewhere with three of your mates? Tough.
Not unaware at all, just aware that there are limitations and it's tough if you exceed them. I'm not saying that's good, I think there should be more spaces definitely, I just think reserving them isnt an unreasonable request on their part and they probably have policy/legal issues booting people off once on, like how do you find who's bike it is to kick them off when the reserved people get on? If you have a limited number of spaces and operate a reservation system, it's very hard to deal with people who don't reserve in a way that isn't unfair to others or causes delays. If you travel by train, reserve your bike. Same with a plane - you wouldn't just turn up and expect to be able to take it, even if it was just an internal trip.
I don't have any problem with making reservations. But the hoops you have to jump through are getting ridiculous, and will only become more so with stuff like the extension of peak travel times.
Pretty soon, unless you are some filthy docile hippy who is prepared to effectively double your journey time by queueing at the station for hours, getting trains at ridiculous times and waiting around for the rest of your friends to arrive, and sorting through a profusion of little bits of orange card, you'll drive everywhere instead. Or get one of the few remaining proper trains with a guard's van which is aimed at transporting people from place to place, rather than topping up some Catweazle-a-like bawbag's swimming pool full of money.
In the latest addition to our wonderful "you-couldn't-make-it-up" transport saga, you can't actually make a reservation for your bike on the virgin website. How absolutely bloody marvelous.
I'm just going to headbutt my keyboard for a bit
as far as i know the only company with on line reservations is East Coast
everybody else you have to phone up to check there's space, then book you ticket (and pay a random price they make up on the spot) only then can you actually reserve your spot!
In my experience, making a reservation for your bike involves going to the station, queueing for eternity behind people who are seemingly planning to circumnavigate the globe via rail, then being told that the service you want to use is being replaced by a bus service on the day you want to travel, so you can't take your bike on it anyway.
that too
Trains should be required to have adequate luggage capacity.
You know where your MP is. Write to him/her/it
"That sounds very expensive. "
Hmm I guess the disabled one is the carriage with the toilet on so Maybe a bit more so but surely there are routes that would have large amounts of bikers and routes that have few?
And Binners, not all bnoddy folders are clown bikes! This one has 26" wheels and everyfink! 😉
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Agree with binners, the lack of online bike booking (especially given that it's FREE) is just stupid.
A few years ago I did a trip from Lancaster up to Glasgow on Virgin with my road bike then a Scotrail service onwards.
Booked the tickets online, phoned up to book the bikes on and the girl said "Oh sorry, it's fully booked on the way up, I'll have to transfer you to another train, it'll be an extra £10 admin fee" blah blah.
Sorted bike reservations for the rest of the journey and I just lied to her and said I'd make alternative plans to get my bike up there.
Turned up at the station with bike and what do you know - bike storage area was completely empty and stayed that way all the way to Glasgow. And no-one asked to see my bike reservation either.
ScotRail were fine, no problems on any of their trains and loads of storage space.
This one has 26" wheels and everyfink!
Six hundred quid, for a boot-ugly hybrid with v-brakes. 😮
600 quid!!!! Sweet jesus! You could buy a half-decent set of forks for that 😉
I'm told that Brompton style folding bikes are the only ones that really count as Ok for trains at all times though not sure if that's ever an issue in reality.
Hush your mouth BD, we should be paying beggar all for bikes. You should be able to get on and use the bike spaces for free, everyone is supposed to be promoting non car travel and offering more integration. Plus you get plenty of people taking more than a bike sized space of luggage on the train which they dont pay for (except ski equipment iirc) Local trains normally have a couple of bike spaces but at rush hour times people use that space and you're having a laugh if you think they'll make way for your bike despite signage telling them to.
I'd propose
Free travel for bikes on an ad hoc basis, nominal fee for prebooked bikes (for long journeys etc used to be £3 back when I did a lot of train journeys) if there's people with bikes who haven't booked then hop off and get the next train unless there is room elsewhere. And of course more space on trains for bikes, 3 or 4 on locals and atleast 6 on nationals.
All the people flexing their hindsight and suggesting he get a reservation seem to be unaware of the fact that the maximum number of reservations on Virgin Cross Country trains is two. And they have three bike spaces in total.
VXC don't exist any more, now Arriva operated, as 'Cross Country Trains' the Voyagers still don't have much space for bikes though, although the reservation policy may have changed. To me, if you only have limited space it makes sense to make people book, particularly on West Coast or similar where people may be doing long journeys with a relatively infrequent service. The fact you didn't know this is neither here nor there frankly!
Bikes don't make money, it's as simple as that. Trains are about cramming as many fare paying passengers as possible onto the train. Yes it's a bit crap, but that's how it is!
We actually have a pretty good rail system, certainly not faultless, but better than a huge number of other countries.
Binners, six hundred quid (actually, seven hundred this year) is nowt. You don't want to know what an abortion on wheels like this costs.
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Before I could drive I ALWAYS avoided using Virgin due to luggage/bike carrying and instead went with GNER who were near on perfect everytime.
Thing is- I hear GNER lost their Franchise?!
Bikes don't make money, it's as simple as that. Trains are about cramming as many fare paying passengers as possible onto the train. Yes it's a bit crap, but that's how it is!
State the obvious, why doncha. Although, I think it's a bit more complicated than that. The people operating these formerly public services aren't just supposed to be milking us for every penny we have...
We actually have a pretty good rail system
It's crap enough to deter a die-hard tree-hugger like me. Seriously, why do they think that three spaces on a train is enough?
Thing is- I hear GNER lost their Franchise?!
yep some time ago as well...
Last time I caught a train was in 2004!
The trans pennine train form sheffield to manchester (via hope, edale etc) used to love us.
With a bit of innittiattive its possible to get about 20 bikes in the bike rack designed for 4! Normaly they just sit in a designated area with a shelf above it for luggage. Hook the front wheels on the shelf though and let the backs dangle down and there's plenty of room.
when my mate any i got the pendolino to carlisle, we chucked our folded bromptons in the bike bit behind the cab next to 4 proper bikes, was plenty of room for all of them, though my bike was sat on top of a stack of bog rolls.
What is the official grammatical term for a multitude of Bromptons? I feel sure there must be one?
Pile of shit?
😆
£600 yes not dirt cheap but used the cyclescheme (how it was intended 😉 ) which made it fairly cheap. As a bonus it has an EBB so now run it singlespeed and it does the job perfectly. No ones going to nick it and it needs next to no fettling
I think a group of Bromtons would have to be "a circus of bromptons" being they are like clown bikes 😉
What do you ride to work Mr Aggreeable?
A bike twice as fugly as that, but which cost me next to no money. 😉
Point taken, I can see it serves its purpose, but I don't like the idea that a folding bike should be a "must have" if you're going to take one by rail. And what about MTBs, has anyone made a folding one that you'd happily ride a semi-decent trail on?
I think a group of Bromtons would have to be "a circus of bromptons" being they are like clown bikes
😆 yer circus of brompton is good
yer we have loads of people laffing at our 2 speed b's on the c2c - funny they stopped laffing as we rode passed them as they were walking up the hills like winlatter pass, unthank bank, hartside etc - got to be pretty soft if you can not get up such road climbs on a mountain bike... ;=)
Si
And what about MTBs, has anyone made a folding one that you'd happily ride a semi-decent trail on?
Airnimal Rhino?
Completely, hence me riding my mtb in today so I can go on a diversion on the way home.
I don't think folders should be compulsary at all, I rarely fold mine but could understand it on a main commuter train into london.
Was going to say that Rootes1, Rolhoff, SID's etc.... well pricy though!
http://www.airnimal.eu/Rhino/Black.php
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Thing is- I hear GNER lost their Franchise?!
They became National Express East Coast, who defaulted on it due to their overly optimistic passenger growth figures, it's now the state run 'East Coast Railway' and is the worst performing TOC in the country, make of that what you will!
Looks like we're decided on a Circus of Bromptons then. brilliant 😀
I'm afraid I'm with Mr Agreeable. Ride-to-work bikes should be assembled entirely from bits you have lying around the garage. I did layout the princely sum of £11 for an old steel GT frame off ebay. Wanton extravagance, I know
Looks like we're decided on a Circus of Bromptons then
I preferred Hora's suggestion of [i]a pile of shit[/i]! 😆
He is quite amusing at times...
I think it depends who you speak to like in a shop-kind hearted manager will be fine but store clerk covered in zits will say no.
But he was doing his job and you need to make a res...
One of the worst trips I took was on the dreaded Southampton-Bristol service with 3 carriages. Bike section was so full of people I had to balance the bike on the rear tire whilst avoiding ramming the bars into peoples heads, if we had to brake sharp it would have head kebabs all round.
After a few trips realised this was the norm at peak weekend times so now hire a car, 40 quid extra well spent. The state of differing cross network policies/archaic systems and limited places make us the laughing stock of Europe, bouncing around 15 years ago in the guards van was way more enjoyable!
The state of differing cross network policies/archaic systems and limited places make us the laughing stock of Europe,
Actually that's not the case, Switzerland has a superb public transport network, but France, for example, is pretty rubbish, away from their TGV network, and even then there are some very odd service patterns.
The Portsmouth - Cardiff services are being lengthened in the peak, to combat the overcrowding anyway, as you say it's a very well known problem. To be honest, whether or not you require a reservation there's a common sense element IMO. I wouldn't try and carry a massive piece of luggage on the Underground in rush hour, and I wouldn't try and take a bike on a service which is publicised widely for being very overcrowded.
But that's just me, despite working in transport I drive everywhere 🙂
agree njee20, was being a bit too general.
Took me a few trips to realise the Ports-Cardiff cattle vans were the norm, my peak times were last thing at the weekend, unfortunately being a cheap/late night journey it was just as packed as Monday am ! Good to hear it's being improved.
Getting trains out of Manchester you see the differences between the train operators. Transpennine to Newcastle - flexible space on train, sensible easy going conductors, dedicated well trained telephone reservation service if you want to be 100%. Virgin - left over corner of train, petty minded conductors, generic call centre where no-one has a clue.
Couldn't agree more John. Thats what shocked me so much this morning. I've never had any kid of bother before with other operators. It depends on your priority i suppose
I don't think dear-old-richard gives a toss about getting people from A to B. He just wants to wring as much money out of the general population as i physically possible
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I just couldn't own a folding bike. I think that, being of a certain age, when i think folding bikes i think of...
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In fairness, a Raleigh Twenty is better than a Trumpton...
That twenty is cool! 🙂
In fairness, a Raleigh Twenty is better than a Trumpton...
erm no.. 😉
but there are some cool modified twenties..
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/milam.htm
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/apr/adker_adker.htm
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