Terrier owners.... « Singletrack Forum

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Terrier owners....

63 posts & 31 voices | Started 4 months ago by loddrik | Latest reply from mooman

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teamhurtmore - Member

Possibly A-A but I am a bit touchy as in the process of re-training one of my retrievers after several incidents with an ill-disciplined German Shepherd and his owner. All could have been avoided if the other owner could control his protective GS properly with or without lead, but sadly not. Let is maul my dog and create a lot of anxiety and fear for him.

Pretty much back to normal with correct use of a lead and socialising on our terms not others. But irritating to have dogs come up when it is not appropriate.

Just basic manners really?

Posted 4 months ago #
prezet - Member

Sorry Prezet, but its not through being snobbish. My dog went to socialisation classes from when he was a tiny pup and went to training every week for two years. So I'm quite happy for him to meet other dogs. The problem is not all dogs are friendly and ours is extremely friendly and keen to say hello.

Probably should have elaborated a bit more. The incidents I mean are when Molly is on her lead. She walks calmly by my side. Another dog owner approaches from the other way, and owners yank their dogs as far away as they can get to physically stop the dogs saying hello. In my view, this can't do any favours for their dog. I can only assume their dogs doesn't get on well with others.

Sorry probably not explaining it very well. But they're the type of owners who won't let their dog mix with others, and completely ignore you when you say pass them saying 'good morning'.

As I've confessed, if Molly is off her lead she is very well behaved except for going to greet other dogs. We've tried numerous things to break this habit - but she goes deaf and gets some kind of tunnel vision. She doesn't go right up to them. Stops about 5-10ft away and sits down wagging her tail. Then normally rolls onto her back.

Once the other dog has gone past, either by ignoring her, or having a sniff and wandering off, she resumes her obedience. If anyone has any advice on how to break this it'd be appreciated. Treats don't work. It does worry me that one day she might go up to the wrong dog and get hurt.

She's still fairly young at about 20 months, and slowly she seems to be growing out of it.

Posted 4 months ago #
rOcKeTdOg - Member

deadlydarcy - Member
A flame from Rocketdog. That's made my day.

if that makes your day i pity the rest of your life

You're wrong though. If you put the work in early you can get an obedient dog. If you don't, you don't. Simple as. Some breeds are a bit more difficult, ergo, you need to put in a bit of extra work.

read this, never a truer word said on here

surfer - Member
I disagree with those who say you can completely train terriers. Yes you can get them to largely behave (and mine does) but if something more interesting comes along I think years of breeding takes over and trumps a few training classes.
I think if I ever came across a terrier that was totally obedient I think you would have destroyed its temperement.

Posted 4 months ago #
fervouredimage - Member

My Westie is fine off the lead and will do as he's told but it has taken me 2 years and a lot of perseverance to get him to this stage.

As already said, it's just a case of having the time to invest which I thankfully did when we got him.

Posted 4 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

No bloody signal today and even less battery so I couldn't join in the fun.

I think if I ever came across a terrier that was totally obedient I think you would have destroyed its temperement.

Nope disagree, truer words have been spoken.

Like these: whenever there are any threads with people asking about new dogs, the only advice I give (amongst all the other pish) is to reinforce recall over and over and over again and socialise him/her. They're the things that all other people expect you to do as a minimum. Have a dog that comes when it's called and doesn't get into fights constantly with a fear-aggression reaction. As far as teaching loads of other tricks, well, that's down to the owner - it's not something I'm interested in. Now, I'm just going to work out what you really mean.

if that makes your day i pity the rest of your life

Thanks, your pity has filled me with joy. Though, I did worry about the attention craving of which you accused me in your rather flamey post. I'm going to have a long think about that. I really appreciate your bringing it to my attention.

Posted 4 months ago #
anagallis_arvensis - Member

I kind of know what surfer means. My lurcher is very good but if she sees a rabbit its game over but as long as she can only chase rabbits in an appropriate place all is good, its similar with most teriers.

Prezet, sounds like your dog is just being submissive, she may well grow out of it.

Posted 4 months ago #
StefMcDef - Member

My Scottish terrier was quite problematic for running away after other dogs and ignoring recall.

Only now, aged three and a bit, is he getting to the stage where he has a 50-50 choice, obey me or hare away after the other dog at the other end of the playing field, and he chooses to obey me. The only thing I've changed is that I've modified my "come heres" from an enraged bellow to a falsetto, upwards-inflected come-hither. Seems to work a bit better.

He wasn't nasty about it and getting into fights, just the usual bum-sniffing antics and, embarassingly, a tendency to cock his leg at the other dog if it was roughly the same size as he is.

He's more prone to starting fights, or trying to, certainly doing more growling and barking and "lemme at 'em", if either he or another dog we might encounter are on leads.

Posted 4 months ago #
Andy - Member

I agree with DD on this. My Staffys recall/walk to heel is excellent. Can easily walk her to heel past a cat,another dog or sheep if I need to - although put her on the lead around sheep just to be safe. Familly have had Staffys for 50 years and have always found if they are trained well when young they are like this. As with any dog it needs to be reminded every few months.

Posted 4 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

I've changed is that I've modified my "come heres" from an enraged bellow to a falsetto, upwards-inflected come-hither. Seems to work a bit better.

It's strange that one...you want to get angrier but the more cheerful you sound, the more likely you'll not be ignored.

if either he or another dog we might encounter are on leads.

Have also noticed this at times...must see what the theory is.

although put her on the lead around sheep just to be safe.

To be fair, I'd always do this - I'd rather not give a farmer an excuse, no matter how sure I am about how she might behave.

Posted 4 months ago #
StefMcDef - Member

I think being on a lead interferes with the dog's fight-or-flight instincts and its sense that it can take whatever action to defend itself.

So it works both ways - for your dog, or the other dog on the lead, which presumably comes out in its body language or scent.

Just a guess though.

Posted 4 months ago #
PePPeR - Member

My border terrier was a little beast, she was fantastic at recall, never chased sheep, would chase rabbits and squirrels when I wanted her too and stopped when needed too.

Her main problem was other dogs when she was on a lead, the typical scene of other dogs being off the lead and them running up to her was 99% of the time going to end up badly for the other dog! I'd warn the owners to keep their dogs under control and to get them back but quite often I'd have to let her off her lead so she wouldn't be so stupid! She would still be aggressive but not as bad as when that lead was on.

I've now got a springer spaniel and apart from being a dirt and hair magnet compared to a border, I'd not change back again.

Posted 4 months ago #
Neil F - Member

I have a 5 yo Westy, he's generally well behaved, doesn't exactly "come" when I call him, but when I shout him to stay he stands still. I have to go to him to leash him up, but he doesn't move. He hasn't been neutered and he does go a bit haywire when he's on a scent, but he's no fighter and loves everyone!

Posted 4 months ago #
Neil F - Member

To reiterate Pepper's point, my Westy behaves much better around other dogs when he's off the lead, I don't thin khe likes being restrained if there's a potential punch up coming.

Posted 4 months ago #
Andy - Member

That lead thing is "fight or flight" instinct no? No option to "flight" by running away so dog gets ready to "fight" by being more aggressive as its the only option left to it?

Edit: beaten to it above

Posted 4 months ago #
JohnClimber - Member

Not just terriers

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

Posted 4 months ago #
JohnClimber - Member

Just back from this mornings walk with my Border Terrier who in the dark is ALWAYS on his (long) lead, he was hunting, sniffing, searching and all the time (I guess) he was looking out for something to chase.

Above on this thread there are those who let their dogs do this and those who train it out of them, each to their own but for those with "well trained" terriers. I feel sorry for your terriers been forced to be a dog they are not.

Posted 4 months ago #
spudnick - Member

Ive got a english bull terrier, had him from a rescue when he was 1 year old. I walk him off the lead when over the park or canal paths and hes as good as gold. we put a lot of work into him to train him and the only times i put him on lead is if other dogs around are on leads. he can be stubborn at times (another terrier trait) but only round the house

Nick

Posted 4 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

My poor dog that comes when she's called. She's emasculated.

Oh hang on, she wanders around, loves nothing more than a game of chase with the mutts she knows and generally gets to have a proper yomp about where it's ok. She's no fan of water though. So I think that's the next phase - forcing her to swim.

Posted 4 months ago #
prezet - Member

Prezet, sounds like your dog is just being submissive, she may well grow out of it.

I'm not quite sure I'd want her too. Being submissive means she doesn't get herself into any trouble.

Around other animals i.e. sheep, horses, cows I put her on the lead. Walking at night she's always on a lead. She likes a good chase of squirrels and rabbits, but gives up quickly.

Her favourite is cats - she shakes when she sees them. And I can tell given an instant she'd be off. One of the neighbours cats stupidly came into the garden and I don't think have ever returned

Posted 4 months ago #
surfer - Member

Oh hang on, she wanders around, loves nothing more than a game of chase with the mutts she knows and generally gets to have a proper yomp about where it's ok. She's no fan of water though. So I think that's the next phase - forcing her to swim.

You seem to be looking for a disagreement that doesnt exist Darcy and you are painting yourself into a corner.
Nobody has said that terriers cant and shouldnt be trained however I would argue with anyone that tells me that my dog could be stopped from barking when the postman posts letters through the door. She will calm a bit when I tell her off and she does mostly come back when I call her.
My point was unless this is the dogs natural temperament then you would have to spend a disproportianate amount of time training them out of these traits. I/we have probably not done a great job of training her as given her behaviour appears to be typical and it causes us and others no real issue it wouldnt appear to be time well spent.
If I did follow this route I am sure she would be a less happy dog and we would not have gained much.
We knew this general behaviour was typical of the breed so are happy. You on the other hand seem to have a slight obsession with trainability. I would prefer my terrier to be more "terrier" like.
Each to their own

Posted 4 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

I don't surfer. The only things I really care about with any mutt, even my "handbag dog" is recall and socialisation (and not shitting in the house j guess). The rest of it I couldn't really care less about - as I've said numerous times - if you'd care to read. If this is obsessive, then, well I dunno tbh. I want a "trick" dog as much as you - which isn't that much at all. Are you saying that having a terrier that comes when it's called is somehow less of a dog?

Posted 4 months ago #
surfer - Member

Terriers have the chase the prey gene at the top of their list of priorities and go selectively deaf when on the chase or scent trail .

This is simply not true and is the preserve of those who couldn't be arsed getting the recall right in the first place.

All you have to do is keep hammering home the recall over and over again when the dog is a puppy

You rubbished this comment which I agree with. As I have repeated my dog comes when I call in most situations. If a rat ran across the path in front of her and she immediately came when I called her * as oppose to chasing the rat (assuming she wanted to) then I think (in the first instance that it would be immposible) if she came to me because I have trained her over and over to do so then she would be less of a terrier IMO in the same way that I am sure AA's dog has an irrepresible instict to chase things. If you dont like that and are only happy with a dog that obeys your commands in every situation then a terrier is not for you.

* if she is already in your hadbag then this does not apply.

Posted 4 months ago #
smartay - Member

The type of terrier also comes into play, for example most Bedlington/ Scottish terriers are so far removed from the original working stock they have lost the true hunter instinct. Whereas the Lakeland, Border, Plummer type are more closely related to the working strain. They WILL hunt which meansd rabbit chasing and digging.

If this dog is to be used with your mtb do you think you should get a more "leggy" dog!

Perhaps the ideal MTB dog is a Trailhound, manmade scene following foxhound- now they came cover some distance

Posted 4 months ago #
surfer - Member

Smartray

The OP didnt mention MTB'ing in his choice of dog I dont think and my Lakeland doesnt come with me when I MTB.
She does occasionally come with me when I go running but even small terriers are easily capable of running at a steady pace for several miles.

Posted 4 months ago #
anagallis_arvensis - Member

Prezet, sounds like your dog is just being submissive, she may well grow out of it.

I'm not quite sure I'd want her too. Being submissive means she doesn't get herself into any trouble.

What I mean is she may well grow out of feeling the need to approach other dogs and be submissive, she will most likely not suddenly grow into a fighter.

Posted 4 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

If you dont like that and are only happy with a dog that obeys your commands in every situation then a terrier is not for you.

Interesting qualification you've decided to make. I understand now.

Posted 4 months ago #
donks - Member

Havent read all the above but our westie won't say boo to a goose, never runs off and gets walked off the lead regularly. He gets bullied by our rabit and is dead friendly with all dogs and cats.
There his good traits mind..... Don't get me started on his ailments, bloody thing costs us a fortune in lotions and potions and he smells like a ferret.

Posted 4 months ago #
mooman - Member

I got two border terriers.
The one will go deaf and go to any dog it sees.
The other is not the slightest bit interested in meeting other dogs.

The one dog will fight any dog - no matter how big - that as much as growls it him.
The other will run a mile if a dog growls at it.

Each dog are different.

Posted 4 months ago #