yeah just get on it though and see what happens.

i am 10 years so far… so we shall see what happens.

Toys, you can an AST as long as you like although repair obligations change if is over 7 years in length.
The only real problem with really long leases is that a landlord then becomes bound by this contract and will only be able to end the tenancy if the the tenants breach one of the grounds of the tenancy that can result in the landlord being able to serve a valid notice. Much greater security for the tenant, although it can result in a tenant not being able to end the contract either.
Its an interesting conundrum.

Landlords do serve notice on a whim btw. No reason, no explanation. The way the law is currently as soon as the tenancy is in the periodic term a landlord can serve a S21 and will get possession. I don’t know why but a lot of landlords do this.

I remeber when a secure tenancy was the norm before AST was invented. The landlord could only evict you if you had breached the contract. this made live much more secure for tenents.

Now the pendulum has swung far too far the other way with tenants haveing very little rights and the landlord avle to ewvict without any reason – this has led to insecure housing for many folk – its no wonder some don’t repect it.

In most of Europe long secure leases are the norm.

Interesting thanks – What about other types of contract other than AST?

Landlords do serve notice on a whim btw. No reason, no explanation. The way the law is currently as soon as the tenancy is in the periodic term a landlord can serve a S21 and will get possession. I don’t know why but a lot of landlords do this.

Yeah I think this is a bit of a misrepresentation. Yes of course they can serve s21 without having to explain why, but they will have had a reason, they just didn’t choose to justify it to you or your clients.
You earlier asserted that they do it out of bloody mindedness or for some kind of power trip, which is frankly untrue, a bit sensational and quite frankly unqualified, as unless you are a mind reader you actually have no idea why they may have served notice.

edit: teej is this a discussion or a place for you to tediously repeat yourself ad nauseam? Are you worried that people won’t bother to read what you posted a page or so back? Perhaps you have a bit of dementia and have forgotten you made these posts?

The exact same point from page 2

Tenants have almost no rights in the UK. They can be evicted at any time for no reason – no security of tenure which we used to have and most of Europe has.

and again from page 3

That they get evicted on a whim. No security of tenure, that rent can be increased without reason given.

I remember before the law was changed under Thatcher – you could have secure tenancies – ie you could only be evicted for breach of contract not for the landlords convenience, when rents were controlled so the landlord could only charge a fair rent.

Really – the system is rigged so far in the landlords favour here. People rent long term in continental europe as they have security of tenure.
I would like to invite you to make a more meaningful contribution, like how to solve the problem in an equitable way? Or perhaps something judicious like mrmo’s heartfelt desire?

How many tenants have made an effort to find a ‘long term’ landlord. Tenants expect to be able to cut and run quickly, but don’t like the landlord being able to do the same.

As someone has suggested – if you’re willing to make a decent financial commitment, I’m sure you can find landlords willing to do the same too.

Teej – also your point about fair rent is not quite accurate – you cannot unilaterally increase rent on an existing tenant.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?116868-Rent-Increase

How to solve the problem- end ASTs and go back to secure tenancies. You can unilaterally increase rent.

Edit – crossed posts – every tenancy agreement I have seen allows for rent increases but the common way to do it is at the end of the six months – if the tenant had secure tenancies this would not be possible. Its a gun to the head – accept the rent increase or move out – even the link you posted says

However, it should be borne in mind that a Shorthold tenant can be evicted very easily, so these rights are illusory, because most tenancies are Shorthold, where if the tenant opposes the rent increase the landlord can evict.

Fair rents were assessed by the council and were binding.

Yes might be a good idea. I don’t know but I wonder if the advent of the AST was to pave the way for the BTL industry.

Read the link I can’t be arsed to repeat it here, no you cannot increase the rent unilaterally. ( at least not in England)

From your link

Rent increase for a Fixed Term tenancy

The rent cannot be increased during the fixed term, unless:-
• the tenancy agreement allows for rent increases; or
• the tenant agrees to a rent increase.

When the fixed term ends, a landlord will often ask an existing tenant to sign a new tenancy agreement, at a higher rent, as this is a common way for the landlord to increase the rent.

That does NOT violate the rule that the rent under a fixed term tenancy can’t be increased, because: (a) the increase is taking effect only after the end of the fixed term, not during the fixed term; and (b) the tenant is agreeing to the increase.

Tenancy Agreement allows for rent increases

You must check the tenancy agreement to see what it says, if anything, about rent increases. This might be referred to as the landlord’s right to vary the rent.

If the tenancy agreement allows rent increases, the tenant has to pay the increase, as often as the tenancy agreement says the rent can be increased, provided that:
• the clause in question is contractually enforceable, and
• the landlord complies with all the provisions of the clause.

So yes yo can unilaterally enforce a rent increase if you write it in the contract as most do and at the end of each six months

Yeah I think this is a bit of a misrepresentation. Yes of course they can serve s21 without having to explain why, but they will have had a reason, they just didn’t choose to justify it to you or your clients.
You earlier asserted that they do it out of bloody mindedness or for some kind of power trip, which is frankly untrue, a bit sensational and quite frankly unqualified, as unless you are a mind reader you actually have no idea why they may have served notice.

But do you think i may have contacted landlords and asked them why they have served notice? This would be normal practice when investigating homeless application to a local authority, and I have done this, a lot.
I have heard some very poor reasons for serving notice. I could explain further but I’m not going to.

I would like to invite you to make a more meaningful contribution, like how to solve the problem in an equitable way?

no.

Thats enough from me. If anyone reading this has a problem with their landlord or has any housing related questions, feel free to click my name and contact Shelter.

Yes teej I am aware of exactly that, but the point is that you don’t have to sign a contract with a rent increase provision in it. In fact my contract from the RLA does not mention rent increases anywhere. I have emailed it to you. The RLA serves many landlords. I dunno how many different letting agreements you have been able to look at, but I can’t imagine it is too many, you not being an agent or anything.

Anyway it is academic as the local market dictates rental prices, so unless you are on a frightfully good deal you are unlikely to get majorly shafted. 2nd, whilst it is theoretically possible to evict tenants because they wont accept a rent increase, I wonder how many tenants have actually resisted and then been evicted because of it.

EG if your rent increase is say 8% is a landlord going to ditch you and risk a void period of a month or more until he finds a decent tenant(8% of annual income) . As a landlord I wouldn’t. People like Steve Austin need to be advising people to tell their landlords to go and take a running jump when they try to increase rent and see what actually happens. Nothing I expect.

You are banging a theoretical drum.

I think the real problem here lack of edumaction. People are too afraid of their landlord to challenge them, when in reality the rental market is saturated and its a bit of a tenants market, so when a tenant starts to play hardball the majority of LL’s will back down..

Here in sunny Exeter the Uni has a shit hot accommodation office and SU who look over the landlords contracts and shenangians with a fine tooth comb, you find many students here bending over to a landlords intimidation. They are pretty well switched on.

This

I have heard some very poor reasons for serving notice. I could explain further but I’m not going to.

I do not believe esp as you have copped out. Anyway as they legally don’t have to give a reason why should they to someone who is representing the “other side”? I probably wouldn’t.

and this

Thats enough from me. If anyone reading this has a problem with their landlord or has any housing related questions, feel free to click my name and contact Shelter.

Is also a massive cop out. It’s all right for you to come on here and play the expert, but when the questions get a bit tough you have decided to retire? Personally I don’t think you have represented your employer in a good light, so I wonder how many might have considered coming to you and have now changed their minds.

t took me 3 days to get new tenants in last time I wanted them. Its standard practice up here to increase rents at the end of the six months. I have seen a few tenancy agreements as we run a rented flat and ours has the rent increase clause in it.

Toys – I think Steve has been shown in a very good light -reasonably and rationally answering questions and refusing to get drawn into debate. I think most folk would think likewise and some of the landlords on here have shown themselves in a very poor light

3 days void. Previous occasion 2 days void

I let at below market rent to enable me to have a choice of tenants and to ensure I have full occupancy.

Look at the stat’s it is an average of 2.8 weeks of void a year.

Anyway your argument shots itself in the foot. You say landlords can put up rent because they can evict tenants and just find new ones, yet your own experience is that you keep your rent lower than average to have full occupancy. It’s a bit contradictory isn’t it.

🙄
So my actual experience does not count? its not contradictory at all. Its common practice to do it and I have done it.

I like to be a good landlord. I like to have full occupancy so I let the flat at a reasonable cost. If you did the same you might have the same experience – no voids.

when in reality the rental market is saturated and its a bit of a tenants market,

Really?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/nov/08/rental-properties-snapped-up-record-time
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/sep/16/rents-rise-record-amount-august
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/oct/13/families-unable-to-afford-rents

you just said this

t took me 3 days to get new tenants in last time I wanted them. Its standard practice up here to increase rents at the end of the six months.

but then you said you have low voids because you have low rent, this is not an example of landlords putting up the rent and then finding it easy to get new tenants is it? And then you said it was standard practise to do that – so which is standard practise – rents up and easy finding of new tenants or low rents and easy finding of new tenants? Stop talking bollocks Teej, I want a discussion not an excuse for you to massage your ego. You can do better than this mate. Don’t make me mention loss of respect…

Petard hoisted by yer own methinks.

edit: militant biker damn you..
My excuse is I only know about exeter – and a small corner of it, north of the river, east side, lots of rental property available here, not enough tenants, we are constantly having to raise our game to compete. I actually have no idea about the rest of the country.
Actually national stats like that pee me off as they don’t reflect what happens here at all and are no bloody good as a guide for working out what to do next.

edit:

If you did the same you might have the same experience – no voids.

In my own properties I have never ever had a void for single day that wasn’t intentional (ie for major refit etc).

try actually reading what I wrote toys. Its two different things – what I do and what standard practice is.

Its standard practice here to put up rents at the end of the 6 months. Its a landlords market so if a tenant does not like it they can be given notice and new tenants found easily.

What I personally do is let slightly below market rents so not only is it easy to find tenants but I can have a plentiful choice of tenants and I want to be a good and fair landlord.

I had a choice from around 10 different potential tenants in the first day I advertised it. The ones I chose it took me 2 days to check references and for them to come up with the cash. I was still getting enquiries weeks later.

yea I can read and so can everyone else.

edit: militant biker damn you..
My excuse is I only know about exeter – and a small corner of it, north of the river, east side, lots of rental property available here, not enough tenants, we are constantly having to raise our game to compete. I actually have no idea about the rest of the country.
Actually national stats like that pee me off as they don’t reflect what happens here at all and are no bloody good as a guide for working out what to do next.

Sorry, I didn’t mean it as an attack. 😀

Yeah, national stats; London skews so many statistics that it’s far from ideal.

I only know this as I’ve been reading up. I’m about to be a renter in the UK again (and a landlord to my brother) and I’m not sure what to expect. Last rented ~5 years ago. 😕

Sorry, I didn’t mean it as an attack.

I call it being held to account.

If the rental market is going to get better round here that makes me much less miserable than usual. I shall refuse to believe it until I see it. I can only see gloom.

where will you be renting?

Anyone want an Edinburgh flat – my neighbours flat is vacant and for rent right now

geebus, problem is most tenants aren’t in the position to put down six months rent and so buy a long term agreement, lettings agents seem actively against it as they have a nice earner by charging “admin” fees when they ask you to renew the agreement every six months, and some mortgage companies do specifically prevent it.

Oh as for rent increases, the way it was put to me by one agent was accept or move out, i moved out they were a crap agency far to much hassle. If i had refused to budge it is only going to end up in court and me having problems getting a new place.

i suppose i shouldn’t be so harsh on landlords, i just wish they went in with eyes wide open. Problem is the pension industry in the UK is f***ed, savings are worth nothing, the stock exchange has yet to reach the level of Dec 1999. what is there left to invest in that will give some kind of return? Mind you i am not convinced housing is the best vehicle for savings, at some point something will give, rental levels, interest rates etc.

As for Agents, scum.

Teej did they put the rent up?

militant, those guardian articles are b*****ks if you look they are based on very dodgy numbers and have been released by agencies, in the same way they talked the housing market up they are now trying to sc*** the rental market.

My neighbour – its a complex situation with the landlord overseas and an incompetent agent. Its never been let before. I am tempted to step in and get tenants for her

It would be good if we could somehow collate our ‘real world experiences on this subject rather quoting ‘the law’.

I’m not sure ‘the law’ always works quite as it should…

mrmo – I had noticed 2 were from letters, but 1 is from Shelter

toys19
where will you be renting?

Cambridge or Ely

even shelter has an agenda, but the real problem is how you interpretate the numbers. National and local are very different things to look at, and london is the problem.

Anyone want an Edinburgh flat – my neighbours flat is vacant and for rent right now

i think you should state if it is next door to you or a property owned by your neighbour. 🙄

Hi all again.

Do i have any options to get my current tenants out quicker than the 2 months notice i have to give them??

I might have new tenants lined up already(one is a teacher) and they are desperate for a house in our area.

Although it is ‘easier’ to evict a tenant in these times I’d certainly not clasify the eviction process a ‘whim’.

Regardless of what legal framework is in place there are going to be winners and losers in any given set of circumstances.

Serving a S21 or S8 notice can be done readily and easily but it’s hardly a fast forward to being granted a possesion order by the Court.

Secondly neither notice is a ‘notice to quit’ to the tenant merely a notice that the landlord wishes to seek possesion. A landlord can only evict a tenant with a possesion order. Even if correct notice is served the tenant can still delay and frustrate Court proceedings if they understand the rules.

Ultimately though, there are far more bad tenants than bad landlords. Added to this a change in how we live our lives then it may well be time to review the Law. However, a reversion back to the ‘old’ system would be a step back.

Rento – get real advice. I think if they are in breach you only need give one months notice – however you need real lawyers advice from someone who knows the issues and the law.

Wahtever you do do not start harrassing them to get them out

If they owe 2-months rent then the ‘fastest’ legal method is a S8 notice. But this would become nullified if they paid up enough money to bring the debt down to below 2-months.

Regardless of the notice, you still need to go to Court after the notice has run to obtain a possesion order.

You could try buying them off but if they are trying to get into council housing they will probably refuse.

TJ, depends what you mean by ‘breach’. Smoking in the house would not be held by the Court as an enforceable breach.

I echo the need to seek proper legal advice from a solicitor experienced with the L&TAct.

ETA; My posts relate to the property being in England or Wales.

I’ve always thought I’d like to keep our current house to rent out if and when we can afford to move, mainly as something to use towards a retirement pot. Having read this sort of thing more and more on here I’m not so sure anymore!

M6TTF, this is not meant to put you off,

If you intend to keep the property and let it out, do your homework, there are plenty of good tenants out their but their are also plenty of bad ones, speaking as a tenant never trust an agent, i doubt they treat landlords any better than they treat tenants.

Be aware that houses need repairs, you may be willing to live in a house for a few weeks if the boiler fails, as i tenant i would not be happy unless you can come up with a damn good reason. Can you cover the costs of void periods WHEN they happen.

Look at your local market, and i mean YOU look, do not accept the word of an agent as to how much it will let for. Can you cover the mortgage with the rent and save something to cover the inevitable?

And look at your mortgage, are you allowed to let the property on the current mortgage

I’d be remortgaging it for a suitable policy, and would certainly do my homework. Quite a lot of the neighbouring properties are let as they’re ideal, being in town. Something to think about anyway!