For the past year my wife has been training to be a primary school teacher and has inspired me to consider a career change to teaching also. Specifically a secondary school teacher of craft and design technology.

Does anyone have any experience of pgde courses for CDT in Scotland?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

You need to speak to househusband on this forum.

You do indeed.

When i applied in wales many years ago, having done a craft apprenticeship and worked as a craftsman grade for a few years, gaining 6 city and guilds meant nothing to the idiot admisions officer, trumped up job name for an idiot with no idea of the real world.

Thanks…hopefully he’ll notice this post.

I’m sure I have noticed some others who may be in the profession on the ‘things I have made’ thread. Lots of backgrounds in photos that look like school workshops.

I’m english trained so not much use to you. Firstly, get the name of the subject correct – I think Scotland held onto the C(raft) for longer than the rest of the UK but it’s still been Design Technology for fair while.

I looked at the curriculum in Scotland a few years ago when I was thinking of moving back up and to be honest found it a bit backward in comparison to the English equivalent – might have been brought up to speed recently. Even so, if you are 35 plus it will be a different subject to the one you did when you were at school with different priorities.

Right, Design Technology got it. I appreciate that a great deal has changed since I was at school (I’m 34 this year so you weren’t far off).

I have been an architect for the past 9 years and did all the training for that previously so I think I’m reasonably familiar with some of the current themes in design and technology but will still have lots to learn no doubt. Not least the skill of actually teaching well!

I’m doing the pgde secondary in edinburgh at the moment. Can’t tell you much about D&T as I’m Science but if you want to know more about the rest of that course let me know. You’ll be in D&T sessions about 2 thirds of the time – for the other third you’ll be in with all the other subjects.

Only thing I would say is be organised and then organise yourself a bit more. D&T can be a bit funny about which undergrad degrees they accept so worth getting in touch with the course tutors of where you’re thinking of going to check they accept your degree.

I have been an architect for the past 9 years and did all the training for that previously so I think I’m reasonably familiar with some of the current themes in design and technology but will still have lots to learn no doubt. Not least the skill of actually teaching well!

Sounds good. No disrespect to Project above but a modern Design Technology teacher needs to major in the design element as well as be proficient practically. Gone are the days of the pipe smoking CDT teacher who is closer to a tutor technician with a career in a workshop as a qualification for the job. Not saying this is a good thing, it’s just the way it is. A good technician can back up new DT teacher ‘developing’ their practical skills but you need to be damn good at the soft skills out of the box.

Good luck.

“Damn good soft skills out of the box” – never a truer word said.
I line manage a D+T department – the wisest D+T teachers keep a second line of work going, retire early and do that. Nice small classes of max 20 in UK. Quite a nice number – but departments have shrunk and shrunk in size since Gove and Ebacc pushing Technology to the sidelines.

Computer science is the boom area now.

wwpaddler when you’re at Uni how does the week pan out? My wife has been training at Aberdeen for primary teaching and has been in Monday to Thursday but said others doing secondary education were in only 2 to 3 days a week.

Did the PGDE in Edinburgh eight years ago and qualified at a time when there were few permanent jobs so was had temporary jobs for several years! Came into it later on in life.

Being a ‘technologies’ teacher really is a broad church as it encompasses more discretse subjects than any other. I’m kind of between the old school teachers described above but happy with most but not all of the new curriculum. Many new, younger teachers shy away from the practical subjects and much prefer the cleaner ones – so much so that older teachers in the profession recognise it as an issue as there will always be a need for practical subjects and skills. We can’t all be designers as someone still has to be able to make and fix!

Oh, and you are lucky if you have a department technician these days…many authorities got rid and there will be several covering the entire school.

That’s actually quite good to hear because although I’m very comfortable with various types of design, one of the things that frustrates me about my current job is the lack of opprtunities to be hands on with practical craft.

What professional/educational background and qualifications did you have before doing the pgde?

At edinburgh Monday is lectures for everyone. Depending on the week 1-4 hours but spread through the day.
Thursday is “professional studies” Depending on the week will be either 2 hours in the afternoon or 4 hours spread over the whole day.
Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday you’ll be in DT. Don’t know how thats organised as all the subjects do different things but as a scientist I’m in for 3 hours on Tues am. 5-6 hours on wednesday and 2-3 hours on Friday morning. Allegedly Edinburgh has more contact time than other universities.

Course starts mid august. Have about 6 weeks at uni before 1 week in school. Back to uni for 3 weeks then 6 weeks in school. Back to uni for a few weeks before christmas. After Christmas you’ll have a few weeks at uni before 6 weeks in school then 3 weeks back at uni then 3 weeks off for easter. After easter you’ll have a 5 weeks school placement then back to uni for a week then you’re finished.

What professional/educational background and qualifications did you have before doing the pgde?

Varied! Got my degree later (Product Design Engineering – useless unless you care to relocate and had only just moved to Edinburgh) on in life. It does indeed offer the chance to be practical and I do enjoy the job; sometimes the kids are easier to work with than colleagues..! Every day is pretty much different.

the wisest D+T teachers keep a second line of work going, retire early and do that

Yup, that’s my plan too. Hoping to get out or go part-time in my mid-50’s after twenty years or so.

I’m in my 6th year as DT teacher in the UK. I expect the curriculum is broadly similar up there as it is down south.

The way it is going is much more ‘soft’ skills focussed – use of CAD and CAM (but more 3D printers and laser cutters rather than lathes/milling machines). A lot of focus on product design, analysis, modelling and graphical skills.

However, I do think that as the older generation of teachers are leaving/retiring schools are looking for teachers who can also offer the full practical side of DT – carpentry, welding/brazing, casting, machining, etc. as they often have the kit, and kids who want to use it, but no-one who is trained or confident on it.
On your course I suspect they will cover the basic hand skills (saws, chisels, etc) and machines such as pillar drills & fret saws. However, you will probably not get the the relevant H&S training for things like band saws, table saws, thicknesser/planers, or any welding or casting equipment. There just isn’t the time. I made it a point to press for all of that training in the first couple of years at my school, and it has stood me in good stead. I’m pretty sure my broad skills base was one of the deciding factors in my recent appointment as a HoD in another school.

As far as the subject goes in schools, be prepared for it to be a poor sibling to other practical subjects like art and music (heads tend to like, the fluffy, pretty subjects more than the dirty, noisy ones!) and for most departments to be understaffed and underfunded. The smaller class sizes are a bonus – generally no larger than 24/25, and you tend to left to your own devices compared to other subject areas. We do get a lot of kids who are considered ‘good for nothing’ throw at us. As the thinking goes that at least they’ll be happy banging something. Sometimes these kids really surprise everyone when given a bit of encouragement and help in something that’s less about literacy and numeracy.

Enjoy 😉

Currently studying PGCE in D&T at Sheffield Hallam. Not Scotland, obviously, so maybe not exactly the same.

I too come from an architecturalish background, decided not to do a part 2 after my degree as I couldn’t handle the ego involved, kind of fell into teaching after volunteering at a Secondary school for a while. I’d recommend doing that for a bit, if you can, just to get an idea of what goes on in D&T these days. Might sound strange, but if you like it you can pursue it further.

Regarding the standing of the subject, it depends on the school you’re in. In my first placement the department were very marginalised, seemed to be there because they had to be, and no other reason. No budget, no drive from within the department to develop projects, no support from management.

In contrast to that, my current placement is almost the polar opposite. Enthusiastic, supportive management, seemingly good budget, challenging projects, staff willing to move with the times instead of resting on the laurels of a wooden pencil case project. It makes a huge difference, it’s a much more pleasant atmosphere, the students are actually engaged in the work, they have access to laser cutters, a 3D printer, electronics lab.

I’m enjoying it at the moment, but I can see how teaching wouldn’t be for everyone, which is why I’d recommend dipping a toe first.

My other half is a DET teacher in Scotland. I don’t want to put you off it, but the job market is very tough. Be prepared to work on supply for a while. Some councils have actually stopped hiring new permanent staff, for the time being, as many schools are merging and there are more teachers than there are jobs.

Unless you’re willing to move up North, permanent jobs are difficult to come by. It’s easier to find jobs north of the central belt because “once you move there, you can’t move back”. The rather frank view is that if you’re teaching the placid, rural chookters, you’ll be out of your depth with the rough and rowdy kids from the central belt. Especially in the DET subjects, which generally tend to attract the less academic kids. Some people don’t mind that but most don’t want those jobs because it limits future options. Just bear it in mind.

She did the PG course at Strathclyde a while ago and seemed happy with it. Most of her class are no longer in teaching, for reasons I’ve mentioned above.

carpentry, welding/brazing, casting, machining, etc. as they often have the kit, and kids who want to use it, but no-one who is trained or confident on it.

And they may well not be allowed to use it for H&S reasons. A friend spent a lot of time and money retraining, and he wasn’t even able to make his student project because he wasn’t allowed to use any of the machinery – he had to resort to using my machine tools and welding equipment. Then after all that he couldn’t get a teaching job, closest he got was a job as a technician.

Still, he go to clear out the tech studies store, and I got several kilos of brazing rods and silver solder for a small contribution to the tea kitty 😉

And they may well not be allowed to use it for H&S reasons. A friend spent a lot of time and money retraining, and he wasn’t even able to make his student project because he wasn’t allowed to use any of the machinery – he had to resort to using my machine tools and welding equipment. Then after all that he couldn’t get a teaching job, closest he got was a job as a technician

But if the school has the equipment and it has been maintained/serviced and the teacher has the training, then they can teach with it. Unfortunately, as he was a PGCE student (if I get your meaning correctly) then he probably wasn’t covered by the school’s H&S policy or insurance for unsupervised use of the equipment. Not that he wouldn’t have been safe, but schools are quite risk averse.

Bit crap he couldn’t find a job, but did he look further afield? You do need to be willing to travel or move for the right teaching job sometimes.

However, some schools and departments are more enlightened. In the year just gone I’ve taught and had pupils use in coursework – pewter, silver and aluminium casting; brazing, silver soldering and MIG welding; lathe work on steel, brass and aluminium; and almost all of my Yr11s were trained to use the band-saw (something I know other schools often don’t do, mainly cos they’re lazy!)

Bit crap he couldn’t find a job, but did he look further afield? You do need to be willing to travel or move for the right teaching job sometimes.

He couldn’t really for family reasons, unfortunately. Your school sounds great – I’ve heard of others where the most pupils could use was the low-temp thermoplastic stuff.

To be honest availability of jobs isn’t something that I had considered too much. I wouldn’t really be looking to work in Edinburgh or Glasgow though. I’m based just over the Tay in Fife so I guess I’d be well placed for Fife, Dundee and Perth with a little more travelling to get further afield. From what my wife has learned so far she’s under the impression that Fife is not such a popular place for teachers to apply to compared to the cities so it might be okay.

Annecdotally my knowledge of the job market is slightly different to asdfjkl’s knowledge. Apparently a lot of teachers have left the profession due to the new curriculum. Jobs are available and application numbers are low although they may only give you a 1 year contract to start with it’s often the case that some permanent jobs will appear at xmas or easter when application numbers are even lower so relatively easy to jump from a short term contract to permanent if you’re successful.

Annecdotally I know of DT jobs in the central belt that were readvertised due to the low number and poor quality of applicants and are still unfilled 12 months later. My current school (central belt) advertised for a science teacher and only received 2 applications.

But certainly its allegedly easier to get jobs in Fife – apparently they tend to hold onto their probationers which tends not to occur in the central belt.

Thanks. That all sounds a bit more positive :-). I guess you never know until you try. It’s got to be an improvement on the amount of architecture jobs at least.

I completed a PCGE in D&T / Engineering at Sheffield Hallam a few years ago and can only speak of working south of the border where things are probably very different.

The subject has changed enormously since the coalition came in and many of the great teachers that helped train me have been worked out of their jobs or made redundant in this time in favour of cheaper, NQTs many of whom have never had a job and have little life experience; whether this matters or not is a matter of opinion but the number of tech teachers I encounter that are scared of using the machinery in their workshops is frightening.

I read my unions magazine without fail and I genuinely feel that what happens in the election on Thursday will be very influential as to whether I am in teaching in a years time…changes will not come immediately but things could be about to turn a corner.

The subject is expensive as well as very different from most others in school it raises esteem for certain learners and is incredibly valuable but also massively misunderstood by heads and SLTs.

I would be very reluctant to be paying money from my own pocket to retrain to be a teacher in a subject that has such an uncertain future. Especially if I already had a steady, stable income.

Jobs are fairly scarce, doubly so in Sheffield where many teachers are trained. I was lucky, double lucky as I work for a vocational provider so have less hoops to jump through than I would in a school.

Go in with your eyes wide open and get some observation experience in more than one school so that you are aware of the realities before you get into it. Try to get in a crap school and a good school to really get a feel. Having insiders helps with this even if they are support staff or other subject teachers.

It’s very hard work, the ATL report that teachers do 58 hours a week on average (I assume this is a term time average!) for not a lot of money; checkout in Aldi could net you more per hour. It can be very rewarding but also very frustrating (mostly the politics not the kids!).

From what my wife has learned so far she’s under the impression that Fife is not such a popular place for teachers to apply to compared to the cities so it might be okay.

Hmm… I’m curious why she thinks that! Is she a teacher herself..?

Whilst Fife has its fair share of rougher schools so does every authority. Personally, I think that the ethos and life of a school is dictated as much by the Rector and Senior Management as it is by the catchment area.

I live probably no more than several miles from you if you live just over the Tay!

It’s not a reflection on the schools in Fife or the area itself, she has loved her time in both of the schools in Fife that she has been training in. She was simply told by her tutors that the graduates tend to opt to live and work in the cities hence Fife not necessarily getting as many applicants. Whether that is true or not is another matter but it sounds logical as it happens in other jobs too. I guess teachers often have spouses or dependants whose careers are city based too.

Fife council have a DET teacher surplus as a result of merging the schools in Leven in a year or two, so they’re not advertising any jobs for the foreseeable future. That said, I’ve also heard that Fife like to keep their probationers when they can.

Perth & Kinross seems to have a fair amount of jobs advertised in DET. A little bit further away, there often seem to be jobs going in the Falkirk area too. Good luck if you go for it – it seems like a fun subject and O/H loves teaching it 🙂

Househusband which school do you work in if you don’t mind me asking?

Do you think there is any opportunity for a bit of in school experience? I’m keen to get a feel for what the job entails and would love to find an opportunity to do so in the local area.

I don’t get it. You’re an architect and you want to pack it in to become a teacher?
My wife is a Primary School teacher. I suggest to stay in your current job, wait for a couple of years and see the change your wife will go from being full of enthusiasm to being over-worked, stressed and disillusioned. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

You’re not an architect then I take it? 😀

Seriously though, I get no satisfaction from my job whatsoever and am expected to want to work late for free as if it is my calling.

What I do feel strongly about is the value of vocational skills and the need for young people to understand that there is value in all skills whether they’re are going to take them to a university education or not. I love the practical side of the subject and am well qualified in the design side of it too so am I wrong to think that I might get some satisfaction out of a job teaching? I’ve not been on holiday for the past 10 years, hard work or stress would not be any great shock to me.

Not an architect – a civil engineer and under similar pressures as you (although I do get holidays now and again).
I would hate to put you off something you obviously feel passionate about and I commend you for it. My wife has been teaching for 20 years and although she still loves teaching, like all jobs, there is all the other pi$h that goes with it.
Maybe a change of employer, rather than career would be short-term option. However, I think everyone here will remember the teachers who inspired them, so don’t let a cynic like me put doubts in your mind.

Househusband which school do you work in if you don’t mind me asking?

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