Teach me about 18560 batteries please

Bike Forum

Teach me about 18560 batteries please

27 posts & 12 voices | Started 7 months ago by carbon337 | Latest reply from nealy

Tags:

No tags yet.

carbon337 - Member

Ok I bought a Cree XML-T6 torch (Ultrafire c8) from ebay with some 18560 batteries.

BRC 18560 3000mAh 3.7V li-ion

To be used as a head torch for MTB and a bar torch on the road bike.

Went on a road ride last thursday after charging till there was a green light on the charger on a mix of low and medium I only got about 1h 20mins. I did have it on high for about 10 mins.

How long should i be charging these for? How long should they last?

Sorry im new to all this stuff and some basic advice would be great thanks.

Posted 7 months ago #
aidso - Member

I have a P7 torch for my helmet with the same battery and I would only get 1 hour from a cell - I carry a spare for the remainder of the journey.

In saying that, I only turn the helmet torch on when the tree-cover gets thick so sometimes the battery does me longer.

Posted 7 months ago #
Rusty Mac - Member

Stoner provides some good info on the 18650 batteries here 1/3 of the way down the page is a tabel of how the cells stack up against one another.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ebay-cree-xml-20-torch-out-of-the-box-pics-review/page/2

At the end of the day that may be all you can expect from a single cell powering an XML led, they are pretty high drain led's especially concidering the currents they can be run at to produce such a bright light.

Your best bet is to probably pick up a couple more cells and stick them in your pack or pocket when you go out so you can swap a fresh one in when they run out.

Posted 7 months ago #
carbon337 - Member

How long do people normally charge these for?

Posted 7 months ago #
kevj - Member

How long do people normally charge these for?

Until the LED on the charger changes from red to green?

Posted 7 months ago #
carbon337 - Member

Ok wasnt sure whether to believe that on this cheap charger.

Think ill buy some better batteries after looking at the Torchythebatteryboys page.

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

carbon - the cheap chargers from china seem to be very slow to charge. Allow at least 6 hours IME.

I get 1:20 on full defibrilating setting from a fully charged cell in my XML T6.

Posted 7 months ago #
kevj - Member

When I first got mine for a Cree P7 some years ago, it took a few cycles of charge /discharge before the batteries were running at their optimum.

Also, the charger I bought as a package with 2 18560 batteries had an auto shut off which stopped charging when they were full.

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

good point re cycling charge to get burntimes up. Will update on burntime once theyve been charged a few times more.

Posted 7 months ago #
nealy - Member

Li-ion batteries do not need priming/cycling to increase their capacity from new.

"Rechargeable batteries may not deliver their full rated capacity when new and will require formatting. While this applies to most battery systems, manufacturers of lithium-ion batteries disagree. They say that Li-ion is ready at birth and does not need priming. Although this may be true, users have reported some capacity gains by cycling these batteries after long storage."

Read the below links on how to use your Li-ion batteries...

Charging Lithium Batteries

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

Posted 7 months ago #
jeffcapeshop - Member

so.. recommendation for a decent battery and charger? i got a torch off ebay which is very impressive for light but the batteries are awful and i'm scared to use the charger!

Posted 7 months ago #
kevj - Member

"Rechargeable batteries may not deliver their full rated capacity when new and will require formatting. While this applies to most battery systems, manufacturers of lithium-ion batteries disagree. They say that Li-ion is ready at birth and does not need priming. Although this may be true, users have reported some capacity gains by cycling these batteries after long storage."

And how long have the batteries been sitting on a shelf in storage?

Personally, mine improved after a few cycles. It has to be worth a punt..

Posted 7 months ago #
carbon337 - Member

so.. recommendation for a decent battery and charger? i got a torch off ebay which is very impressive for light but the batteries are awful and i'm scared to use the charger!

From what ive read but not tried these sound decent: senyBor 2800 batteries

Not sure on charger - my cheapo one looks a bit suspect to me - dont think i will leave it on its own charging.

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

The first few times I used my cheapo one I used it in an old tool box on the end of an extension cable outside the house/garage/shed just in case it went up.

Now I use it plugged directly into the outside ip66 socket during the day. When Im confident it's OK, I might bring it into the shed.

Posted 7 months ago #
nealy - Member

And how long have the batteries been sitting on a shelf in storage?

Personally, mine improved after a few cycles. It has to be worth a punt..

It doesn't state a time so I don't know but the chemistry of lithium batteries is different to nickel based batteries and they don't have a memory effect. Who knows how long ago the batteries were made before they are delivered to us, if it’s ages then a few cycles may help but theoretically it shouldn’t make a difference.

The important thing is not to overcharge them, not to over discharge them and to store them at 40% charge in the fridge if you won’t be using them for a long period.

so.. recommendation for a decent battery and charger? i got a torch off ebay which is very impressive for light but the batteries are awful and i'm scared to use the charger!

Batteries http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Asucell-3000mAh-18650-Li-Ion-Protected-Torch-Battery-/150519935002?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item230baff01a#ht_1708wt_922

Charger http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18650-Lithium-Ion-Dual-Battery-Cell-Rapid-UK-Charger-/160549848417?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item2561844561#ht_2277wt_922

Posted 7 months ago #
jeffcapeshop - Member

that'll do - thanks!

Posted 7 months ago #
HarYuken - Member

According to that chart on the Stoner thread, those Asucell batteries are poor. I am no expert on this and the only info I have is from that chart showing outputs but surely the SenyBor 2800 would be better?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-SenyBor-2800mAh-18650-3-7v-batteries-case-/300611519557?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item45fdd7c445

Posted 7 months ago #
Rusty Mac - Member

store them at 40% charge in the fridge if you won’t be using them for a long period.

Storing them at partial charge is correct but storing them in the fridge seems to be a common misconception, quite a few people mention this on the forum and it is frequently poo pooed by the battery experts like smudge.

Storing them in a cool dry place is more important than the fridge, if you look at the graphs in your How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries link you will see that at 0 degrees they loose 2% and up to 25 degrees they loose 4%, a fridge is normally at 4-6 degrees and a cool spot in a UK home will normally be below 25 degrees so you are not really doing any more harm to the battery storing out with a fridge.

Your fridge is generally quite a damp environment which will lead to more problems than a dry storage environment.

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

I too saw that the asucell batteries arent great on torchythebatteryboy's chart - and he's the one selling them on eBay

Posted 7 months ago #
jeffcapeshop - Member

ah that http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-SenyBor-2800mAh-18650-3-7v-batteries-case-/300611519557?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item45fdd7c445 seller, big_f_d_d is "torchy the battery boy" whereas the previous is called "torchythetorchman".. initially assumed it was the same guy - will go with the second! (er big_f_d_d - that one)

Posted 7 months ago #
pedlad - Member

it took a few cycles of charge /discharge before the batteries were running at their optimum.

+1 - Only got 35 min out of mine first run around the FoD Verderers on a mix of low and high. Last time it lasted 1:20 before swapping cells.

That ebay charger linked to above looks to be of no greater quality than the one I got with my torch (£18 inc charger & cells amazing value!).

Does anyone know if there's a quality (british certified) smart charger for these cells?

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

ah, good call.

So there's an impersonator of torchythebatteryboy called torchythetorchyboy.

Its tricky torchy world out there

Need to check those Sennybor dimensions for my charger though.

Posted 7 months ago #
nealy - Member

Storing them at partial charge is correct but storing them in the fridge seems to be a common misconception, quite a few people mention this on the forum and it is frequently poo pooed by the battery experts like smudge.
Storing them in a cool dry place is more important than the fridge, if you look at the graphs in your How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries link you will see that at 0 degrees they lose 2% and up to 25 degrees they lose 4%, a fridge is normally at 4-6 degrees and a cool spot in a UK home will normally be below 25 degrees so you are not really doing any more harm to the battery storing out with a fridge.
Your fridge is generally quite a damp environment which will lead to more problems than a dry storage environment.

Good point, if storing in the fridge make sure they’re in an air tight bag/container. The fridge recommendation is to avoid them unwittingly being stored at high temps during summer although as you say most houses in the UK don’t often get hotter than 25 degrees.

I too saw that the asucell batteries arent great on torchythebatteryboy's chart - and he's the one selling them on eBay

ah, good call.
So there's an impersonator of torchythebatteryboy called torchythetorchyboy.
Its tricky torchy world out there
Need to check those Sennybor dimensions for my charger though.

The cheeky git, I bought my charger from that impersonator and assumed the batteries would be decent based on the fact he’s selling the,…I’ve been duped!

Posted 7 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

pedlad - Member

it took a few cycles of charge /discharge before the batteries were running at their optimum.

+1 - Only got 35 min out of mine first run around the FoD Verderers on a mix of low and high. Last time it lasted 1:20 before swapping cells.

Again this was my experience... apparently not possible but still it what happened with mine and my m8's. 1.5hr on full easy with my P7 torches.

Posted 7 months ago #
Northwind - Member

You have to remember that not all torches are the same- just because one person gets a longer burn from the same LED, the drivers could be different meaning that the draw can be higher or lower.

Mate of mine is constantly annoyed that his P7 torch goes through batteries in an hour and ten compared to my hour and 20, with the same batteries... But comparing them side by side, his is a little brighter. Seems obvious really but "They're both P7s!"

Posted 7 months ago #
Lawmanmx - Member

informative thread, Thanks

Posted 7 months ago #
nealy - Member

Upon further investigation I've changed my recommendation on the best batteries and charger. The Senybor 2800mAh are good and have a high capacity but both the below batteries maintain a higher voltage and therefore more power for the majority of their capacity, I'll personally be ordering some Yezl 2400mAh batteries as they're a couple of quid cheaper.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Sanyo-2600mAh-Li-ion-18650-3-7v-protective-case-/300610075488?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item45fdc1bb60

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Yezl-2400mAh-top-quality-18650-3-7v-protected-case-/290617660234?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item43aa29934a

The charger I linked earlier is decent but again it seems that there is better to be had for the same money, just google "Xtar WP2 charger" and check out the reviews by others and you'll see this charger looks very good. I'll be getting one I think when/if my current one packs in.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xtar-WP2-charger-18650-18700-14650-14500-/290622863374?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item43aa78f80e

Posted 7 months ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.

Singletrack Mountain Bike Magazine

Bike Forum

Teach me about 18560 batteries please

Reply

Don't miss…

Singletrack

Website & Forums

Exits