http://www.bikebiz.com/news/32172/Landis-I-doped

Continueing the great cycling tradition of cheating.

I prefered it when the first TDF winner was found on a train winning the second TDF. Cheeky rotters and scroundrals are a bit charming… but this aint that cool.

It all went bad when tweed and wool was replaced with lycra.

Why has he come out with this now?

Keep up Charlie….

Because theres an 8 year cut off where they can still do anything about it. If Armstrong or anyone else implicated is proven to have cheeted in the last 8 years he could lose those titles.

I'm more concerned about motors in seat tubes etc.

It happens ever time the grand tours start,nearly everyone was or is/has been juiced up, just enjoy the racing the Giro is awesome this year as usual. 😛

Anyone who things Armstrong is clean is naive

How about Wiggins, TJ? Only just behind him at last year's TDF.

Clubber My feeling is the generation of riders of whom Wiggins is one is clean – or certainly cleaner. NO evidence on Wiggins – loads and loads of circumstantial evidence on Armstrong.

How many US postal teammates is that found to be doping now?

I'm not really clued up on road racing but that armstrong is a funny fella, even if he was juiced up winning 7 TDF is very impressive as you have to be extraordinarily fit to even get to the start line.

For that reason and the fact I'd rather see a bit of good in people I'm going to join the naive camp and say he did not dope.

Don't get me wrong, I tend to agree with you but seeing Wiggins up there last year did make we wonder – if he can do it clean then is it unreasonable that say Contador, seemingly the best climber, is better by the sort of margin he is – not really I reckon and yet, I'm convinced that he (and most of the Disco team) were doping at some point at least…

Anyone think Wiggins was the first of the clean riders in last year's TdF?

Clubber My feeling is the generation of riders of whom Wiggins is one is clean – or certainly cleaner. NO evidence on Wiggins – loads and loads of circumstantial evidence on Armstrong.

How many US postal teammates is that found to be doping now?

C'mon TJ, if they weren't doping, how were they going to be in a position to help their nearly superhuman leader? Classic strategy, you know, clean captain, dirty domestique.

Bloody leg shaving, lycra fetishist, plastic bike riding with support car weirdos.

And the UCI can f*** off and all, Swiss power tripping anal retentives.

I'm more concerned about motors in seat tubes etc.

Genius idea.

Coffeeking – it's for real, check yesterday's thread on it.

100W for 4 hours, would just about double my efforts.

Genius idea:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-denies-reports-of-motorised-doping

mansonsoul – Member
Bloody leg shaving, lycra fetishist, plastic bike riding with support car weirdos.

And the UCI can f*** off and all, Swiss power tripping anal retentives.

And MTBers dont dabble in illegal substances 😉

I dont know why people get so het up about doping, you dont get to the top of the tree in sport without compromising your health in some way, wether its overuse, trauma, doping or whatever. Doping is one choice you can make to maximise short term performance.

What I dont understand is why recreational drugs are banned as well, I love a bit of pot, but even I know its not 'performance enhancing'

It could be if you suffered from stress/pressure and it relaxed you so that you performed better…

I care about it because any muppet can dope. I want to see incredible athletes perform to the best of their ability without cheating. YMMV.

And MTBers dont dabble in illegal substances

Yeah, I'm sure they do, but the xc riders are just roadies that have got lost. 😕

I'd be amazed if there were no DHers/4Xers cheating in some way too – in fact, the explosiveness required means it'd be a significant advantage.

as mtb is generally much more laid back and alltogether cooler than road riding id like to think the only ilegal substances involved were recreational in nature

i hate to think of mtbers as being as up tight and unsporting as roadies

mansonsoul – Member

Bloody leg shaving, lycra fetishist, plastic bike riding with support car weirdos.

And the UCI can f*** off and all, Swiss power tripping anal retentives.

And MTBers dont dabble in illegal substances

also the TDF does not come under UCI sanctions

kimbers – Member
i hate to think of mtbers as being as up tight and unsporting as roadies

And the prize for "generalisation of the day" goes to…

re: Armstrong, I think that given his profile and the sheer number of times he's been tested he would have come up positive by now if he was doping, at least in the post-cancer era.

Well im any muppet and you could fill me up with magic moonbeams and pixie dust and i'd still have no hope of beating an incredible athlete.

I take your point but I wonder why its acceptable to go to some pretty extreme lengths to improve your performance, but the line gets drawn at drugs.

Fair point about the relaxant effect of pot tho

al_f

Unfortunately there are many many people now known to have been doping that had either doped for years before a positive test or had never tested positive. Unfortunately absence of proof is not proof of absence

Landis himself – now admitted to systematic doping for years before he was caught

kimbers – Member
as mtb is generally much more laid back and alltogether cooler than road riding id like to think the only ilegal substances involved were recreational in nature

i hate to think of mtbers as being as up tight and unsporting as roadies

Seriously? Please tell me you're joking 🙂

This place is getting as bad as LFGSS 🙄

TandemJeremy – Member
Unfortunately absence of proof is not proof of absence

True, but "innocent until proven guilty" is still a generally-accepted principle. If you believe Wiggins is capable of the dramatic improvement he has shown recently on the road without doping, you have to accept the possibility that Armstrong could do what he does without doping up. As an optimist I prefer to go with that until it's proven otherwise, but YMMV of course.

Landis started out racing mountainbikes I do believe

Nice to see folk resorting to sweeping generalisations. Mountain biking and road cycling have lots in common, and both attract all sorts of folk.

Well, someone had to say it………

Im a firm believer in Lance. He's already proven in numerous tests that his natural physical attributes are typically far greater than the average humans. People hate to see one man dominate any event. And especially such a brash american. Long may he continue I reckon!

glenp – Member
Anyone think Wiggins was the first of the clean riders in last year's TdF?

No, I reckon that would be Contador. Other than an "our boy" bias, is there any reason for thinking Wiggins is any more likely to be clean than the rest of the peloton?

Has he got a biography coming out? Besides I thought he'd already been caught so this is no revelation, just a chance to get some time in the spotlight and $$$. Given the number of people who are caught it seems suprising that Lance has kept a clean sheet if he has been doping. Don't they test the winners of stages, jerseys etc. more than the rest as well?

Fair enough AL_F

cool idea

All those fancy road bikes with oddly shaped tubes will be back to round seat tubes!!!

surely a non-round seat tube would stop [edit – a suitably shaped] motor rotating ?