Excellent exciting finish. Renshaw should not have been sent home for that. Cavendish seems to have grown up a lot this year. I couldn't bare the chap last year, but this Tour he appears to have learned the fine art of keeping his mouth shut when required. Let's hope Renshaw's appeal works and they start to take some intermediate sprints. Cavendish to take Green into Paris would be excellent, especially as Wiggings' tour is going to amount to nowt .
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TdF Stage 11 *Spoiler*
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Posted 1 year ago #
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What was Renshaw thinking? Two headbutts more than needed IMO.
But to look behind and shut the door like that.
I can only assume the reason they didn't put him last was because that wouldn't stop him doing it again?
I admired Renshaw up until that point, but that was out of order.Posted 1 year ago # -
Renshaw is legend for Facebook
Posted 1 year ago # -
do you think he deserved to be kicked out though oldgit?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yeh I was pretty surprised by the continual headbutting, way too obvious. And the deliberate swerve to clock was well out of order.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well I don't know.
Part of me wonders if it's the old anti Cav brigade at work here.
But if it is unacceptable behavior then what's the answer?
I suppose he just the got the equivalent of the red card for pre meditated and dangerous riding.
I wouldn't like to have made the decision to throw him out, but I don't know how I'd justify keeping him in the race to Garmin and other teams.Posted 1 year ago # -
Cavendish seems to have grown up a lot this year.
the HTC team have to put up with Lampre, Garmin and Sky trying to disrupt them for the last 10k at 60kph
you lot are taking the piss,
haven't you seen cav throw his bike on the floor and helmet out the bus because he messed up his sprint.
it's a race, trying to disrupt a leadout train is well within the rules but headbutting isn't
Posted 1 year ago # -
At least he cares which is more than can be said for The England football team
Posted 1 year ago # -
haven't you seen cav throw his bike on the floor and helmet out the bus because he messed up his sprint
Nowt wrong with a bit of passion. The difference this year, is that he isn't mouthing off to the cameras / hacks at every opportunity.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oldgit whilst I agree that they have some justification for throwing him off for the block on Tyler where is the sanction for Julian Dean. Just looks like they don't want Cav and HTC to have it all their own way, if they let others get away with it and punish the winning team.
Posted 1 year ago # -
flatfish we've seen that but think a bit of pride and passion and anger at loosing is a good thing.
Trying to disrupt a lead out is legal but not coming into a rider off a line. I'm also fairly sure I've seen Oscar Frier using hi nut to keep his place on Cav's back wheel in a couple of stages.
Posted 1 year ago # -
thats not passion thats petulism
Posted 1 year ago # -
whats petulism
Posted 1 year ago # -
sorry petulent
Posted 1 year ago # -
i think the headbutt incident dean got what was coming for him, throughout the whole incident renshaw was being forced to move left by dean.
I'm not entirely convinced that he saw farrar when he looked back, farrar was very close to him when he did so he would have had to turn his head further to see him. Saying that Renshaw shouldn't have moved off his line whatever, and he must know that by now. Not sure it should have resulted in him being kicked off the tour though, a hefty fine and move him to the back of the bunch in that finish would be fair. It does strike me that the commissars respond a little too quickly to events like this - they could have reviewed it a few more times and announced at 8pm or whatever. Also given what happened to Cav in the incident with Hushovd last year (in which both of them are clearly moving towards each other, along with some poorly laid out barriers which become narrower in the last 200m) it does seem his is unpopular with the commisars.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've not seen a replay but it looked like Renshaws first contact did the job as Dean backed off. At that point what they both did would be seen as acceptable.
Renshaw didn't need to press the point any further. I think he took his job too far.Posted 1 year ago # -
if you look at where the incident started and when Dean backed off they had moved a long way over and were fairly close to the barriers.
Posted 1 year ago # -
if you watch Dean, he's leaning on people from about 500m out, not just Renshaw
and you could argue that Renshaw is getting out of the way of Petacchi and maybe he thinks that Farrar is actually Dean
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anyway, whatever, I'm just annoyed that Cav is going to be without his leadout man
and Jean-François Pescheux looks corrupt too
mehPosted 1 year ago # -
maybe he thinks that Farrar is actually Dean
Thats my thought either he didnt see the guy or did and thought it was Dean and his blood was up
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've had a couple of looks at the incident (recorded from tv) and he did not back off. It is really tight and he makes no concession to Renshaw. Hey, we weren't in there, but I think Dean keeps the line tight and the red mist comes down.
Just have to wait and see if they talk to the guys and see what actually happened in the appeal. It would be good to see if Cav can use some other wheels and fight for a win without Renshaw, though. His speed in the last 200 is just immense.
If you want messy sprinting you have to go back to Djamolidine Abdoujaparov who just went all over the place. He wouldn't stand a chance of staying in now.
Posted 1 year ago # -
it's a race, trying to disrupt a leadout train is well within the rules but headbutting isn't
Whats the difference between using your elbow and using your head? renshaw didn't really butt Dean, just use his head as a bit of a ram, counteracting what Dean was doing with his elbow.
Sean Kelly thought he did a great job at holding Dean off. 4 Green Jerseys, he knows better than anyone
Posted 1 year ago # -
Whats the difference between using your elbow and using your head?
Working your opponent with your elbow isn't the same as elbowing their teeth out.
renshaw didn't really butt Dean, just use his head as a bit of a ram,
Nope, it's a head butt.
It didn't look like Renshaw was trying to work space for Cav, it just looked like he was trying assault Dean. Fighting for position is one thing, but surely straight up fighting is totally unacceptable.
Posted 1 year ago # -
anyway my 10p is on Lance tomorrow
Posted 1 year ago # -
Prior to seeing the TV pictures and listening to the reports on the news (radio) this morning (in NZ- bit of a fuss as Julian Dean involved) I was expecting it to be a lot worse. Not that it's good or right but getting kicked off the tour seems v.harsh.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Looked fair enough. Nothing but handbags.Maybe he moved over on the run in but it seems very harsh to kick him out of the tour. As said , above ,
Djamolidine Abdoujaparov was a real mobile chicane. How many times did he clip a barrier and take down other riders?
A great finish to a stage. And we're only 1/2 way throughPosted 1 year ago # -
The pushing away with his head was a bit overdone, but that's all it was - a headbutt is when you're trying to injure somebody, and I can't see how they can suggest that was the aim. As the team manager said, how are you supposed to fend off somebody closing in on you like that without taking your hands off the bars? The changing line bit was worse, but certainly no more than others have done in the past - normal punishment being a relegation to the back.
The thing is, had it been anybody other than Renshaw (ie Petachi, Hushovd, or even Cav) with a couple of incidents like that at the finish would they have thrown them off the Tour? I don't think so. ISTM they've punished him that way because they felt it was the only way they could really hurt him, which is the totally wrong way to go about it.
I'm sure they'll appeal, but doubt they'll get anywhere given the appeal goes to the same people who made the original decision (one of them made some comment about the likely success of an appeal for that reason after Cav got relegated last year).
Posted 1 year ago # -
arracer. Your probably right about other riders not being thrown out, but Cav and HTCs previous on this tour wouldn't have helped.
Lets face it we all know he winds them up, and fair enough because he writes cheques his legs can cash. However don't expect any sympathy from the blazers when you over step the mark.Posted 1 year ago # -
As far as I'm concerned, once Dean starts **** about the gloves are off and HTC are fine to do what ever they like so long as it only affects Dean and the chap he's leading out. Which is what they did.
I don't have any problem with it, other than the punishment seems ridiculous; was he thrown out for defending his position or for blocking? The defence was robust, but seemed ok given that it was a response rather than an attack. The block; I don't see the problem with blocking someone who's lead out guy caused the problems to begin with.
You can't 'punish' either Dean or Renshaw because they don't care about anything other than the guy's their leading out and you couldn't punish Cav etc for the indiscretions of another rider. So either chuck them both out, or neither of them. Or choose your least favoured rider and punish 'his' man if you're French.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just seen the replay on Youtube, and the more I watch it the worse it looks. Renshaw is so out of order it's unbelievable. That sort of riding can end other peoples careers.
As far as I'm concerned, once Dean starts **** about the gloves are off and HTC are fine to do what ever they like so long as it only affects Dean and the chap he's leading out. Which is what they did
Wrong. what Dean tried was well within acceptable boundries and what Renshaw did was acceptable - at first, lets just say he pressed the point home a little to far.
As for his actions only affecting Dean, how could Renshaw possibly know that.
Then there's the block, that's what I'm refering to in my opening. Also Renshaws sit up mid sprint I think was commented on as well.Posted 1 year ago # -
"petulism" is an excellent word by the way. "Petulance" is correct, but somehow lacking now. I'm going to use petulism in future.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It's only the third butt that gets Renshaw back where he started, the first two just slow his trajectory towards the barriers, so not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't talk about his actions affecting Dean, I was talking a bout them affecting the guy Dean was leading out. If Renshaw is out because he deliberatley blocked someone, then he must have known someone was there. So he must have seen them. So it's not a huge leap of faith to surmise that he knew who he was blocking.
Not sure what your point is about Renshaw sitting up?
Posted 1 year ago # -
What's annoying is that Renshaw is too good for that sort of thing, but I'm sure cav will have a back up plan and I still think he can do it.
The sitting up thing might be just my take on it, but he appears to be going almost backwards which is equally dangerous. Even at my level I'll get a massive b*****ing if was to slow like that.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Having watched it several times now HERE I think Renshaw did a brilliant job. He obviously realised that Cav was definitely blocked to his right and the only way he could get him through was to move Dean back over to the right and let Cav through on the left. It worked, job done.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hmmm. I don't know how bad it actually is, I've not a lot of idea about how dangerous that is or feels. But visually the repeated whacking him with his head is terrible. It's so blatant. Again (not having been in such a situation) I can't really pick up what Dean has supposedly done that would seem to justify it. One does wonder whether he'd have been disqualified if Cavendish was friendlier towards the French though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
So if Renshaw's DQ stands, who will lead Cav out for the rest of the tour? Given he's already the quickest by a margin, plus using it as a means to poke a finger up at Pescheux et ses amis, I wouldn't bet against Cav taking another couple of stages before the tour's done.
Hopefully however without ripping his shirt off and waving it above his head as he crosses the line, displaying 'Free The Renshaw 1' written across his chest. Let the riding do the talking this time......
Posted 1 year ago #
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