Tandem bike controls, Why all up front?

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Tandem bike controls, Why all up front?

41 posts & 18 voices | Started 2 years ago by james | Latest reply from tandemwarriors

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james - Member

More just wondering out loud rather than a why on earth wouldn't it be done this way type question

Why aren't the controls on a tandem were spread out across the 2 sets of handlebars?

I mean apart from not being to ride it fully by one person and the possibility of arguments/communication breakdowns on when/if braking/gear changing should actually be done

It could be setup so that you wouldn't need specially long brake hoses/cables or hard-to-find tandem/recumbant specific length gear inner cables. ie front brake-front person, rear brake-rear person, rear gears-rear person, front gears-front person (with full length inner). It'd make swapping bits between (non tandem) bikes that much easier and sourcing bits cheap easier too

Or the fact that the rear person can't see exactly whats going on in front make this a silly idea? They'd have something to do at least anyway and wouldn't be all the person on the fronts fault if they crash as a result of not braking enough

It'd make changing gear under brake dragging more possible?

Tell me why its a stupid idea? I'm intrigued.
And yes I've barely ridden a tandem. On the front for all of 100m? The back for about 1/2 a mile? I didn't like it when the front rider put the power down out the saddle ..

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

One brake per rider? Are you on crack? That's a horrendous idea!

Why doesn't the passenger in a car have control of the clutch and be indicating left?

Think of it as a 'driver' and a 'stoker'.

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

What a great idea lets give half the controls to someone that can't see what's happening.

Posted 2 years ago #
aracer - Member

rear gears-rear person, front gears-front person

Posted 2 years ago #
james - Member

"Why doesn't the passenger in a car have control of the clutch and be indicating left?"
tbh though its much more of a brake for each rider (like a driving instructors car) and a gear lever for each rider? okay so they don't control the same things but divies up the controls between the riders a bit and gives the 'stoker' something to do?

Posted 2 years ago #
tonyg2003 - Member

This reminds me of a story that my bike shop owning mate tells. Some of his regular customers are a couple, him full sighted, she blind. They ride a tandem and a couple of years ago came in with the tandem, broken forks and folded downtube. My mate says - "so how did you do this" joking to the lady "you weren't steering were you"......embarassed slience from couple

Aparrently back from the pub!

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

Try thinking of it this way.

You're riding along and all of a sudden someone grabs a big handull of rear brake for you.

You're riding along and want to change gear so instead of shifting the lever you ask someone else to do it. By which time it'll be too late.

You've not really though it through have you.

Posted 2 years ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

Quite a few tandems have 2 rear brakes to give the guy on the back some controll, might have bene hope that made a calliper with an extra set of mounts on the back for running a second calliper?

The instructor doesnt actualy use his pedals in the car though does he, he just slams on the brakes when needs be. Mine only touched the other pedals once when I was having an absolute mare of a lesson and couldn't set off (bloomin fly-by-wire controlls) .

Posted 2 years ago #
james - Member

"You've not really though it through have you"
No, I already vaguely outlined this to begin with ..

" By which time it'll be too late"
Under less severe gradient changes the person at the rear would be able to tell when to change gear from the pedalling load. Typically being the weaker rider they're more likely to be more determined/interested/think it important/something along these lines to changing gear to suit the gradient?
If it really was going to be too late, the front rider would still have a degree of sudden gear changing ability from having control of the front mech? The communication issue would need fine tuning of course ..
The rear rider may feel better if they have the option to drag the rear brake on the rougher stuff. Though yes it'd be annoying for the person up front to have the rear person dragging the rear brake when not needed

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

to give your proposal context, perhaps you could suggest which element of the controls specifically you would be prepared to put in the exclusive hands of your wife (or indeed any of your female acquaintances), who would invariably be the one stoking?

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

The rear rider may feel better if they have the option to drag the rear brake on the rougher stuff.

Or grab a big handfull half way round a corner causing all kinds of problems....

the front rider would still have a degree of sudden gear changing ability from having control of the front mech?

Resulting in a bent mech and mangled chain.

Front gear changes on offroad tandems have to be done with advance warning and very gently.

If you're bored on the back of an offroad tandem you need a more adventurous captain...

Posted 2 years ago #
james - Member

"Or grab a big handfull half way round a corner causing all kinds of problems...."
Or that ..

As an eg, I was thinking (without any real depth) front brake for the front rider, rear brake for the rear, front shifter for the front rider, rear shifter for the rear. Mostly from being able use non tandem specific gear/brake cables/hoses

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

Ok I give up it's a great idea.

Why not build one up with that setup then you can tell us all how great it is.

Posted 2 years ago #
BikePawl - Member

The stoker can steer the tandem, you don't want to give them brakes as well.

Posted 2 years ago #
coffeeking - Member

Tell me why its a stupid idea? I'm intrigued.

How can someone bearing my name present such a horrendously studid idea?

Tell you what, I'll give control of my car brakes and throttle to my passenger, the throttle is on that side of the car, it'd make the cable routing shorter and place the master cyl in an area with more space... I've enough to do with steering anyway!

Posted 2 years ago #
ac282 - Member

If I gave my wife the brakes we'd never get anywhere.
If I gave her the gears we'd always be 3 gears higher than we should be.
If I let her steer we'd crash.

BTW tandem cables aren't that hard to find. Just order some and keep them with the bike.

Posted 2 years ago #
titusrider - Member

james uve excelled yourself, get in touch its been a while!!!

Posted 2 years ago #
james - Member

I do realise there are several potential issues with the general idea, many more than than any advantages to this way around. It would require both riders not to be numpties, and it would help if both liked to pedal at the same pedal cadence and had a good idea of when to brake

Unlike a car it surely can't go thaaat wrong, unless as mentioned above the 'stoker' decides to slam the rear brake on under leant over cornering, but a half clued up person (hopefully) wouldn't do that

I'm not trying to say why on earth would you set all the controls to the front, just entertaining the idea of doing it a bit differently by asking why it just won't work

Thought I should help start a thread on here once in a while. Sometimes it gets a bit samey

"I'll give control of my car brakes and throttle to my passenger"
At least they'd be able to see where they were going ..

Both tandem riders would be pedalling anyway, just in this instance both riders would have 'a' brake

I read somewhere of a tandem with a set of hydraulic disc brakes controlled by the front rider and a set of hydraulic rim brakes controlled by the rear rider?

"Ok I give up "
No no! Don't do that. (I think) you're the one that knows what you're talking about ..

Posted 2 years ago #
juan - Member

a friend of mine have split the command. He steers and brake. His lady get the gear. It's not a bad idea as she's the less fit. So she decides what is the most convenient gear for her. He just cope with it.

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

I read somewhere of a tandem with a set of hydraulic disc brakes controlled by the front rider and a set of hydraulic rim brakes controlled by the rear rider?

Some road tandems come with an extra rear brake. This is used as a drag brake to stop it running too fast on tarmac descents. These are sometimes mounted on the stoker bar and sometimes mounted on the captains bar. If mounted up front it's quite common to use an indexed thumb shifter instead of a brake lever. ( so you can set how much drag you want)

Our tandem came with a front mounted thumbshifter and V brake set up aswell as the disc brakes. I removed it as soon as we got it home from the shop.

Posted 2 years ago #
james - Member

No it wasn't a drag brake, It was definetly 2 hydraulic disc brakes and 2 hydraulic (magura) rim brakes. The bike was for alpine DHing. Can't remember where it was now. It might have a been a post on here some time ago

Posted 2 years ago #
epicyclo - Member

The most important and real reason has not been discussed:

Would you trust a person with your health and safety when they have been receiving the full benefits of last night's curry in their face for the last 10 miles?

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

epicyclo.

I get a good firm punch in the ribs if i let rip with the after effects of a chicken madass.

Doesn't stop me doing it though.

Posted 2 years ago #
kcr - Member

Sometimes it's useful to be able to run a tandem around solo. Very difficult if you split the controls!

Posted 2 years ago #
tandemwarriors - Member

Sandy has been reading & giggling.

Would you trust a person with your health and safety when they have been receiving the full benefits of last night's curry in their face for the last 10 miles?

Sounds familiar.

I get a good firm punch in the ribs if i let rip with the after effects of a chicken madass.

Sandy has an alternative, she pulls my shorts down!

In terms of stoker control, their weight movement is plenty control. If they don't lean correctly then you're not going where you want to. Had a few times where I hadn't communicated which line I wanted. I (tried)to steer for one line, Sandy leant for a different one, and she won.

There's no way either of us would want to share gears & brakes. The stoker can't see enough to react quickly enough, and because an MTB tandem loses momentum so quickly uphill, you'd be forever in the wrong gear. We find having the stokers cranks 2 teeth behind the captain gives Sandy a chance to feel and react to changes in pedal pressure.

Sometimes we actually pedal technical sections while dragging the brakes. Seems odd but it can be easier to control the balance in tight turns (think the climbing switchbacks at Glentress) by dragging the brakes against the pedals, rather than stopping pedalling for a second. You'd never do it on a solo but we find it works well on the tandem. If you shared out the controls you'd be completely screwed.

If you're bored on the back of an offroad tandem you need a more adventurous captain...

Amen to that! We rode the Iron Keld descent in November, no time to get bored, too much screaming to be done!!

Rob

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

Sometimes we actually pedal technical sections while dragging the brakes.

I do that on tight turns too.

Helps when we're almost trackstanding round them.

Posted 2 years ago #
aracer - Member

Sandy has an alternative, she pulls my shorts down!

Bibshorts?

Posted 2 years ago #
thekingofsweden - Member

Shakes head after possibly the best thread for a long time.................

Carries on saying goodbye to madras and replacing ribs after sides split with laughter.

Saying that how the hell an ofshore powerboat is controlled is similar to our friends suggestion !

Posted 2 years ago #
aP - Member

We've also realised that tight cornering is really helped by braking and pedalling at the same time as it seems to stop the tandem dropping disturbingly into the corner. Even my small friend wouldn't consider having brake control.

Posted 2 years ago #
james - Member

"useful to be able to run a tandem around solo"
With a front brake and front shifter surely it wouldn't be toooo bad would it? It'd be pretty difficult to do an endo and go over the bars with the front brake and so long as the rear shifter is left in the middle it'd be a chainring either side of SS? Unless you need to go up some kind of big hill ..

"pedal technical sections while dragging the brakes"
I already do that on (narrow) north shore on a normal bike ..

Posted 2 years ago #
tandemwarriors - Member

aracer, good call, must invest in some.
Or just make my dietry habits a little more considerate!

Rob

Posted 2 years ago #
tandemwarriors - Member

Hey, just had a great idea, James might be on to something......

why don't we give the stoker full control of the pedalling and remove the front cranks?
Then we'd know if they weren't pedalling at the back.

Will go and see what Sandy thinks.........

Posted 2 years ago #
tandemwarriors - Member

Anyone got some painkillers? This is sore.......

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

why don't we give the stoker full control of the pedalling and remove the front cranks?
Then we'd know if they weren't pedalling at the back.

And how about fitting a pulley system so they could steer too.

Us captains could just sit there looking at the view then.

Posted 2 years ago #
mt - Member

This has been funny. As you say James you only ridden a tandem a short distance, try being captain while rattling down Garburn then ask yourself who should be in complete control of the bike. Get a tandem they are great fun and if your partner and you work together well on the thing you'll be together for years.

Posted 2 years ago #

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