Is the intention to flatten and tarmac the lot or will this stuff wear in? They seem to be removing technical bits which didn’t need sorting while ignoring other sections which are borderline dangerous. Maybe I’m just grumpy because I don’t like change…

Which bits are borderline dangerous?
I’m not keen on the new bank on the left at the top of 15 as it makes the next corner awkward.
The smoothed off tables at the top of the last descent make losing speed for the next corner interesting. I like change as I ride there too much (on my route home).

Must admit I like that there’s some change as I too have ridden it a lot. There are a few places where the ditches around roots are big enough to catch a wheel now. I’m fine with roots but there comes a point where on a quick section it’ll catch out anyone not expecting it. There are also braking holes which are starting to be quite bad. In particular, Kevlar has been “tarmacked” at the top where it was absolutely fine, but the big descent with no braking surface leading to a poor surfaced jump has been ignored. Personally I’d have dealt with the second half of Kevlar and left the top as it was.
The change to whatever blue section they removed the little root from was also a bit OTT. That was a small root and the only mildly technical piece on the blue trail. I think blue has now lost the ability to prepare people for the red a bit. That root even had an escape route next to it (around the tree).

I’m grateful for every inch of work the trail pixies do there. I’ve tried to make it to a dig day but it hasn’t worked out so far.

Yes it all wears in, but then it wears out again. Once upon a time most of it was purest ginger, now it’s got some character.

Fwiw I think the labyrinth could do with some love, mainly because there’s no way I can get close to the pb I set a few years back, though I suspect that’s not all down to the braking bumps and roots…

Once upon a time it was purest mud, sometime wet and sometimes rideable 😀

Dig day? Wasn’t aware we were allowed to help!

Yep follow trail team Swinley on Facebook and they post up the odd call for help at a maintenance day now and again. A lot of the smaller bits seem to be done by one or 2 dedicated pixies.

Which bits are technical?

What’s happening with the new freeride trails? Must be nearly done now?

Back in the day we used to have SBI, and it would often be 9 out of 10. Loads of sloppy fun and loads of roots. Now it’s just shiny cobbles on a wet day and ginger paste on the fireroads.

thomasthetankengine – Member 
What’s happening with the new freeride trails? Must be nearly done now?

😆

Ask that on SFMB Facebook group and see how that goes 😉 😛

In short, it aint happening. Legal reasons in part, and an admission that they got over ambitious and got the audience wrong. Swinley is unique being so close to London and attracting a huge range of visitors of different abilities. 99% of which would fine the stuff way out of their ability. CE and the trail team felt this wasn’t the way to go.

Been up to Glentress recently and have to say the skills and freeride area they have there is exactly the stuff Swinley needs. Skills area especially as it’s excellent for people to start out on and practice. Freeride stuff is all progressive and loads of options. Goes from simple to big stuff and there’s something for everyone, not just one set of massive jumps and drops only suitable for the elite amongst us.

The drop down near the bottom of the freeride section looks particularly big when I’ve seen it from the normal trail. I’d think I’m fairly representative of the ‘average’ mtb’er and there’s no way I’d be going near that. Can do little doubles and happy on table tops and perhaps a 2′ drop off but that stuff at Swinley is probably only for the really skilled biker who is very comfortable with big air and drop down type jumps. I don’t think you get many of that type of biker at Swinley from what I’ve seen.

Indeed. They rather over cooked the Freeride.

Bloody shame – a lot of hours & money wasted IMHO..

Surely it could be made safe rather than not used though? Drops are only drops because the dirt has been removed!

I think realistically it’s staying as-is as a compromise though. Closed signs reduce liability while advanced riders are carrying on using it. Doesn’t take a genius to work out it’s in use!

No way I’m doing that big one at my age…. a bit of a shame for those who would though.

As to being close to London and the riders it attracts … surely some big jumps would open it up to more riders.

Its also close to the road / ambulance . You can get a fair bit of air round axle run except a mistake and you hit a tree – miles from access, so,the “kids” will keep using it being miles from medical services.

Also what happened to the old freeride area ? It seems to have been completely levelled ?

stevextc – Member 
As to being close to London and the riders it attracts … surely some big jumps would open it up to more riders.

It’s busy enough as it is, and there are plenty of dedicated big jump places around London to cater for them.

One of the things they’ve said is that Swinley is different from your average trail centre because it attracts a lot of families, people with little or no abilities just out for a ride in the forest. The feeling is the majority audience needs to be catered for not just a tiny few. Though I suspect CE also had a look at what was being built and got very worried from a legal perspective.

There are still plans to do something, but it will feature more progressive options and be a lot more inclusive. The existing big stuff might not survive though, but we’ll see.

Its also close to the road / ambulance . You can get a fair bit of air round axle run except a mistake and you hit a tree – miles from access, so,the “kids” will keep using it being miles from medical services.

Also what happened to the old freeride area ? It seems to have been completely levelled ?

The jump gully was flattened for the very reason that the accident stats were too high and it was too far for ambulances to get to. The new freeride area was located for ease of access.

I hope whoever thought the freeride bit in its current state got a bit of a slap, massive waste of time & money. A skills area or some slightly more challenging runs would have been suitable for the majority.

A skills area or some slightly more challenging runs would have been suitable for the majority

A skills area was on the list for last year, but the freeride won. Not sure why.

Even some of the riders I know who hit bigger stuff in the Surrey hills weren’t too sure about what they saw of the freeride area at Swinley. Shame if it goes to waste though, a skills playground would be a great addition.

I’ll admit that big drop looks intimidating but if you look at the plans they include a red/black run (presumably ridable by most on here) and 2 black runs which may or may not be, so it looks like they’ll hopefully be some stuff which is do-able by those of more modest ability.

Although none of it is probably of any interest to the families who make up the bulk of visitors to Swinley presumably this is something the people who actually give up their time to dig/maintain the trails want so why not, as they are the ones putting all the effort in?

Maybe one day I’ll summon up the nerve to actually hit that big drop!
Definitely a good idea to move it next to the car park close to ambo access though! 🙂

Quite happy with the maintenance & diversions because this happened for the first time in my life ever!!! 😀

Didn’t last long though 👿 😆

One of the things they’ve said is that Swinley is different from your average trail centre because it attracts a lot of families, people with little or no abilities just out for a ride in the forest.

This is probably the most important point.

The trail designer/builder seems to have taken a design from a trail centre and plonked it in a forest that has a huge family contingent visiting it.

With them riding the trails, you will get damage to the surface/braking bumps and the like. But also, there are a great many experienced mountain bikers who drag their brakes as well.

Most of which could have been designed out of the trail from the very beginning. I haven’t ridden there for a few years, but my impression was it felt like what little height there was, was lost too quickly with a berm which a lot of riders would drag their brakes into/through/out of in an attempt to scrub off speed, followed by a climb back out.

It could have been designed to lose height more gracefully. This however would have taken longer to build and would have been more expensive.

What also wasn’t taken into account by the designer/builder was the building material. Ginger wears out quickly, and with the numbers of riders of various abilities using it, it was going to be an uphill struggle to maintain it.

Someone mentioned about a root being taken out, well these decisions have to be made by the trail pixies to prevent potential danger(consider the trails users and the land owner liabilities). If it is left, will it increase the damage to the trail?

I know my time as a trail builder we would get moaned at for ‘sanitising’ a trail, but all these factors play in.

As for the trail pixies, I have the utmost sympathy for them as they are fighting the trail design in terms of maintenance and are attempting to re-work what is a fairly lengthy trail with the limited time they have to do it…they are just volunteers after all.

Someone mentioned about a root being taken out

I was moaning about the root. It was the really, really mild root on the blue before the hill (3 or 4?). It wasn’t dangerous from what I could tell, did have an easy avoidance route, and gave an easy intro to technical riding for blue riders. This section now feels kind of awkward to ride as they subsequently changed it to force you around the tree. Perhaps it’ll get finished and be amazing but right now seems worse.

Contrast with some of the Lab roots with holes big enough to swallow a 29er after them and have been left untouched.

I do appreciate everyone’s time maintaining the trails, it just seems right now that the wrong bits are being worked on. Kevlar still turns to crap halfway while the top half was gingered despite being in great condition. Again though I may be speaking too soon as there seem to be piles of purest ginger waiting to be laid.

What also wasn’t taken into account by the designer/builder was the building material.

One of the stipulations was that material could not be brought into the forest from outside. The ‘ginger’ is the best that can be quarried from within the forest……………

Extreme riding at Swinley? Almost fell asleep last time i went there. Maybe its time for another visit….

.Extreme riding at Swinley? Almost fell asleep last time i went there. Maybe its time for another visit

Swoon, you’re the greatest.

@bgascoyne may be time to get fitter so you can enjoy Swinley properly. It certainly would be boring at low speed 😉

I last visited Swinley a couple of weeks ago and quite a few of the Blues (and a couple of reds?) were closed at the time, I assume we’re discussing the changes made then… the number of closures sort of knackered the loop (admittedly I was just following arrows)

I was planning to visit again this coming weekend but if there’s going to be a similar number of closures again I might just put the visit off for a bit, is that likely?

One of the stipulations was that material could not be brought into the forest from outside. The ‘ginger’ is the best that can be quarried from within the forest……………

That is the case in other places as well. As I said, the trail design should have factored in the building material to be used, along with terrain, type and number of users etc.

the trail design should have factored in the building material to be used, along with terrain, type and number of users etc.

The trail was never ‘designed’ as such. A lot of the sections are many years old and were built by Gorrick & BOB as hidden trails that they agreed with the CE were not to be publicised. As their use increased so they were improved with the ‘ginger’ and some new trails built. The ‘Stickler’ for example was a newish intended to be a hidden ‘secret’ trail.

The various sections were then joined together with new trails to make the publicised routes that are there today.

Just a couple of closures when I went on Saturday. One of the blues; and the red bit that always seems to be closed due to ground-nesting birds in the summer (tank traps?). So well worth a visit – my strava reads 12.8 miles just following the arrows.

The trail was never ‘designed’ as such. A lot of the sections are many years old and were built by Gorrick & BOB as hidden trails that they agreed with the CE were not to be publicised. As their use increased so they were improved with the ‘ginger’ and some new trails built. The ‘Stickler’ for example was a newish intended to be a hidden ‘secret’ trail.

The various sections were then joined together with new trails to make the publicised routes that are there today.
This. The decision was taken that as the numbers of riders were increasing (thanks to the likes of bike mags advertising it), it needed making safer and hardening, so they called Rowan Sorrell’s lot in who gave it all the ginger/trail centre treatment.

That is the case in other places as well. As I said, the trail design should have factored in the building material to be used, along with terrain, type and number of users etc.

As trail surfaces go though it’s not bad.

Anyone old enough to remember the days before it was a trail center knows how wet Swinley can be, the whole nine yards may as well have been named for the width of the trail some years! When it was first ‘opened’ there were quite a few sections cut into bare earth as they ran out of time/money, even then they became unrideable withing days due to the volume of riders and a bit of rain. I do chuckle to myself with all the hysteria over potholes and damp surfaces.

Yes it get’s eroded but that’s a function of how many people use it Vs the number of trial volunteers and their funding.