I know Ernie – you go in with a bit of well natured trolling, and people get all upset over the difference between Celsius and Kelvin 😀

well I actually assumed there was no-one in here quite so thick to that they cant read scales on a graph. Turns out I was so very wrong obviously And the idea that the Spectator is aimed at knuckle draggers is laughable. 🙄

How surprising that you start insulting peole’s intelligence when you get pulled up for posting deliberately misleading nonsense. 🙄

people are only upset because the graphs are misleading, they’d make more sense if they were normalised

Nice one! Excellent shortcut for thinking!

shortcut for thinking

………or also sometimes known as, “can’t be arsed”

Yup, but one of the blights on us is that too many people ‘can’t be arsed’ to think. Call it what you like.

LMFAO!

We have a twofold problem as I see it.

1) Each low paid, low skilled British born worker, when they loose their job stop paying a few thousand in tax each year end up costing many many more times that in benefits. I’d guess it costs the tax payer around £30k a year in lost tax revenue and benefits paid when a British born person gets the push. Once in this situation, it’s very difficult to find a job with a worthwhile wage.

2) Slack immigration rules and EU law enables an influx of cheaper more willing labour to fill those jobs that British born unemployed workers can’t afford to take. These workers tend to share properties to minimise living costs and send any surplus money back to their families in their country of origin. 1st generation immigrants in Slough went through a phase of coverting outbuildings to house these new people. So council tax receipts are down. The only way the council can monitor who lives in each dwelling is by the amount of rubbish which has to be collected. More school places are required for the offspring, more services allround are needed which presents those people who don’t overpopulate their homes with a disproportionate and unfair financial burden. Like local authorities have spare cash to burn!!

Many immigrant workers qualify for UK Child benefit who’s offspring don’t even live in this country, but money is legitimately being sent out of the UK. This is clearly wrong and a disaster for UK public services! (not to mention us poor council tax payers).

It’s all EU loony left socialist ideals that has brought this about and most Britons are angered by such injustices? Are we Brits mugs or what?

So the UK economy looses a lot of discretionary spending. The tax man and the councils get less revenue – everyone suffers!

The issue as I see it is all about people paying their fare share and the UK making employment of British born workers a priority over all others in the interests of the public purse, the interests of British people and preserving the quality of public services.

You don’t get nowt for nowt in this world and as the UK is in general decline in the global scheme of things, we need to stop throwing away money on unworthy causes and look after the long term interests of the UK – PERIOD!

We also need to start to bring back production from the Far East and increase our exports. When we have solved the benefits issue, then we should open our doors to unskilled foreign labour

It is clear that many more people are concerned about this matter than a minority of far right wing boneheads! We should reject this taboo around debating immigration fostered by the socialist thought police.
The subkect needs to be discussed openly by people and with impunity, whatever their politics!

PS, I don’t read the Mail, or the Guardian, they are comics!

minimum wage?

It’s all EU loony left socialist ideals that has brought this about …..

LOL you were doing quite well until you spouted that out !……..you can’t help yourself, can yer ? 😀

Tell me Spongebob, do you come out with bollox like that because you actually believe it, or are you taking the piss ❓

Well just in case you believe that nonsense, let me remind you of a few facts. Far from being “socialist” the EU is designed to defend and strengthen capitalism against its own failing and contradiction – which are inherent to it.

With that it mind, the EU combines a bizarre mixture of neo-liberalism, and compulsory directives and protectionism. Much of the privatisation which is occurring (and will occur in the future) in the UK and the rest of the EU, is due to compliance with the “Bolkestein Directive” ………it’s hardly “Socialism”.

The Bolkestein Directive is named after a Dutch right-wing politician and former head of Shell Oil (no he’s not a Socialist). It is responsible for forcing EU member states to comply with a right-wing neo-liberal agenda.

Just as one example…..postal services. Whilst there is no doubt that there is a genuine desire by both New Labour and the Tories to privatise the Royal Mail, they are legal obliged to so under an EU directive. EU Directive 97/67/EC of 15 DECEMBER 1997, in case you’re interested. Do you call that “Socialism” ?

The most enthusiastic supporters of the EU both in the UK and the rest of Europe, have always been right-wing and Conservative. I’ll remind you that it was Ted Heath a Tory Prime Minister, who took Britain into the EU. It was Margaret Thatcher a Tory Prime Minister, who signed the Single European Act in 1986 to establish a single European market. And it was John Major a Tory Prime Minister, who agreed to the Maastricht Treaty which created the Euro and the European Central Bank. Were they all “Socialists”?

Furthermore today the most ardent supporters of the Lisbon Treaty are Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy, and Silvio Berlusconi, all right-wing and Conservatives, or would you call them “Socialists” ?

The truth is that opposition to the EU and the Lisbon Treaty throughout Europe comes primarily from the Left. And if you can’t see that, then I suggest that you have allowed your opinions to be coloured by racists, little englanders, and head-in-the-sand right-wingers who refuse to acknowledge the failings and contradictions of their own brand of capitalism.

Added to that of course is Britain’s rather unique recent political history within Europe, which sometimes makes the EU look positively “left-wing”. For over 30 years now, Britain has had uninterrupted right-wing neo-liberal governments. This has lead to a situation where a former Prime Minister (New Labour) shamefully gloated that Britain had “the most restrictive union laws in the Western world”.

Britain’s anti-trade unions and very poor employment protection gives it an obvious advantage over its competitors. This is not something which the EU will appreciate as it tries to create a level playing field so that all EU companies can maximise their profits on an equal basis.

As a consequence, EU directives can sometimes appear (and indeed often are) more progressive than Britain’s own regressive and conservative legislation. This leads to pseudo-lefties such as TJ on here, to enthusiastically support the EU.

Genuine left-wingers however, recognise that it is for the British people themselves to achieve social and economic justice in Britain – not foreign politicians in Brussels, who’s primary concern is to maximise profits for companies, at whatever cost to workers and employees. And by using any means necessary including creating artificial demands through directives and protectionism.

Back in the days when the Labour Party was still a democratic organisation, the Labour Party fought the 1983 general election on a platform of withdrawing from the EEC/EU. That was as direct result of the influence of socialists within the party. Today many of those same socialists are involved in the electoral pact “No2EU” ….. with the aim of getting Britain out of the EU.

And back on topic…….it should be remembered that Enoch Powell was Minister of Health when the first wave of immigrants came to the UK from commonwealth countries to work in the British National Health Service. He then went on to make his “Rivers of Blood” speech. Right-wingers have always exploited immigrants, both as a source of cheap and compliant labour, and as a scapegoat to beat when things go wrong with capitalism.

There was a programme on last night (can’t remember what it was called as my wife was watching it while I was doing something else)…anyway it was about councils and council tennants etc.

There was some drug addled scumbag (of white British origin) who lied on his application for a council flat…he abused his neighbours, played loud music and stated that “what’s their problem, the government pays the rent, the landlord gets his money, and it’s my f’ing flat…I’ll do what I f’ing like”. The council person went round to speak to him and the place was a tip…filthy floor, rubbish everywhere, graffiti on the walls. He was a scumbag who just wanted to live off benefits.

In the same programme they followed an African immigrant as he was told he was on the list for receiving a council flat, he looked like he was about to cry with joy as he was told the news. He was due to view it but he said he didn’t care what it looked like, he just wanted to ‘start my life’. He was over the moon when he viewed this tiny little flat…and then we saw him move in (i.e. bring in his sleeping bag as he didn’t have any furniture yet). He was so excited and happy that his life in Britain was starting.

Who would the far right prefer to live in Britain? Who would the far right say deserved a flat? The guy who has contributed nothing to society and had no intention of doing so (in fact his existance has a negative impact to society)? Or the guy who hadn’t contributed to British society before he moved here, but had every intention of contributing in the future?

Immigration needs to be controlled certainly…but to discriminate against people just because they aren’t white or weren’t born in Britain is just moronic.

Who would the far right prefer to live in Britain? Who would the far right say deserved a flat?

The low-life is quite likely to vote BNP. So I reckon that answers the question. Having said that, the lowlife’s attitude is quite indicative of our society ……. an issue which should be dealt with imo and not brushed under the carpet. Otherwise there is every reason to believe that the immigrant’s son might grow up to have the same attitude.

McHamish – the answer is obvious – for every hard working immigrant who wishes to work to make a new life in the UK, we have to shoot two scrounging low life UK nationals.

I reckon a couple of months of this would soon sort out the problems in society

McHamish – the answer is obvious – for every hard working immigrant who wishes to work to make a new life in the UK, we have to shoot two scrounging low life UK nationals.

I reckon a couple of months of this would soon sort out the problems in society

Good idea…but I think we should stop after a while…we’ll run out of scrounging low life’s eventually – I don’t want to be at the bottom of the list and get shot…