… that would actually make the offender think about not doing it in the future?

This has come off the back of a commute where I saw a lady with a child in the car remove her glasses 😯 to apply eye makeup, and another young lady smoking and texting while driving. I see plenty of blokes doing daft stuff too but just not today!

My personal view is that short term bans may work. 1,2,3, 6 month bans for example depending on the severity of the offence. A fine and a few points etc. doesn’t feel effective in my view. I reckon a couple of months getting the bus, walking, cycling (god forbid), etc, may make people think twice in the future.

Totally agree. Driving is seen as a right. So often you hear people say ‘I need a car’ or ‘I have to drive’. Even a 1 week ban might people think a bit. If you ‘need’ your car for work then drive very carefully so you don’t lose that privilege.

I can sort of understand the current system as it is very easy to police. Hand a small fine/punishment and most people take it on the chin. If you start proposing bans then there will be a lot more arguments and legal stands. Doesn’t make it right, though

Driving bans, 1 Month – January to start.

I totally agree with you mate, however it’s hard enough trying to prove offences after an actual incident, harder still to put them before a court (and to do so with little or no staff) it would be virtually impossible at the moment. Sad but true 🙄 🙄

The stuff I see on my daily commute is unreal, even more if I do it on my motorbike, as I can see into cars when waiting at lights.

People eating breakfast…and I don’t mean a banana, I mean cereal from a bowl with a spoon! whiledoing 60 mph.

Blokes shaving in the mirror.

Smoking, texting, cups of coffee, makeup, reading documents/newspapers!!!!

On the bike it scares me rigid, because I’m so vulnerable, in the car I just give them a really filthy look and carry on.

For most, a short ban would really make them think. Imagine going to your boss and telling them you can’t work for a month because you were reading the newspaper while eating your breakfast and smoking a fag…..while driving!

All great in theory, but who will enforce it?

Cyclists with helmet cams?

For mobile phone use (where it gets recorded or is irrefutable) the phone gets taken out of the driver’s hands and smashed against the kerb. Whole lot, memory cards, SIM, the works.

If that driver is caught again within 6 months, a 1-month driving ban.

And by driving ban, I don’t mean the courts saying “oh you’re banned”, I mean having the car impounded for a month.

In fact, while it’s in the pound, it can be examined and any faults must be corrected, at the drivers expense, before he/she can get it back.

I think there should be one chance, one ban. If you do something bannable again, that’s it sunshine, no more license. No ‘but I need it for work’ – should have thought about that before, treacle.

Cyclists with helmet cams?

i honestly think this is the way to do it. not posting on youtube of drivers driving to close, but files sent to police, showing drivers texting etc, with number plates, and a polite question: “what action are you taking against this person?”

if enough people do it, they will have to start prosecuting

Agreed – the mitigation of ‘it’ll affect my livelihood’ simply shouldn’t enter in to it. Tough! You’re piloting a potentially lethal vehicle, take responsibility.

Has anyone written to their MP following the recent spate of carnage? Or joined the road justice campaign? The more people show their displeasure with the current situation, the more they have to do something about it.

If you get caught doing stupid speeds, a speed limited car after your ban is up, ie’ get caught doing 150mph and you’re limited to a car with a max of 70 for two years after your ban is up.
Mandatory black boxes after conviction of dangerous driving
Lifetime ban for drunk driving, jail..and your car confiscated..
Mobile phone jammers fitted to all new cars, if you want to use your phone you have to pull over and switch the engine off..
Ban all the stupid shit like tv’s and dvd’s/games, it’s a car not a front room..
😀 just call me mr Popular…

Ban all the stupid shit like tv’s and dvd’s/games, it’s a car not a front room..

Not been on a long journey in the car with kids, then? (Although my kids use tablets, dvd’s are so 90s…)

For mobile phone use (where it gets recorded or is irrefutable) the phone gets taken out of the driver’s hands and smashed against the kerb. Whole lot, memory cards, SIM, the works.

This ^^^^

The selfish idiots who will call and text whilst driving live their lives through their phones – destroying the phone and sim for using the phone behind the wheel will hit them hard, not least because they will also have to spend up to 2 years paying for the phone on contract after it has been trashed.

They could just look out of the windows and ask ‘are we there yet?’ like kids have done for years before their parents pandered to their every whim…

Not been on a long journey in the car with kids, then? (Although my kids use tablets, dvd’s are so 90s…)

Missing the point somewhat. When personal freedom starts to impinge on the freedom and safety of others, is that right?

not least because they will also have to spend up to 2 years paying for the phone on contract after it has been trashed

Well most people would just claim on phone insurance and have a new one in 24hrs and with cloud-based backup, they probably wouldn’t lose too much. Maybe a few photos? But it’s more about the total inconvenience of it all.

I would be a bit fan of more small on the spot fines…
Would pay for itself, you have a few traffic officers on scooters driving round town handing out £30 fines for “small” infringements.

If people got stopped for doing these they would think more and stop doing them.
However under the current system speed cameras can’t catch idiots cutting people up, driving dangerously etc

you can ban all you want, the simple fact is this.

I commute everyday, the amount of aggression i encounter is tiny, maybe one aggressive driver a week.

The amount of risk I am put in by drivers doing other stuff, other than driving is slightly bigger than the aggressive drivers (although totally agreed that no one should be texting, reading etc etc when driving)

The amount of danger i am put in because people are generally stupid is the biggest risk of all. Some people, a minority tbh, don’t know how to drive a car, and even less so when they have to deal with a cyclist traveling at approx 20mph in front of them. they are clueless, totally clueless in what to do. it is frightening at times, it really is.

Definitely support proper bans. No “hardship” excuses.

That’s like saying “Yeah I did rob that bank, but you can’t put me in jail because that would cause hardship”.

Punishment is supposed to be a hardship!

And all drivers coming back to driving after a ban should be forced to take a re-test.

files sent to police, showing drivers texting etc, with number plates, and a polite question: “what action are you taking against this person?”

There have been a couple of convictions secured by helmetcam footage. This CycleGaz one is probably the most well known incident:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ujuJXNq3w[/video]

But even then the result of a potentially fatal incident was 3 points and a £200 fine. 🙁

Martin Porter (aka the Cycling Silk) had a driver harass him with horn beeping, multiple dodgy overtakes and finally threatening to kill him. Just because he took the primary through some pinch points. He got it all on video but the police and CPS weren’t interested.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv8w5-cOmCs[/video]

He only got action after complaining to the Director of Public Prosecutions and the guy was convicted.
http://road.cc/content/news/50682-persistence-pays-cycling-lawyer-motorist-who-threatened-kill-him-convicted

speeding/rlj/mobile use instant ban 1 or 2 weeks plus whatever points/fine you normally get. Should be easy enough to catch with the “spy-cars” that Pickles is trying to outlaw (“you watching out for me breaking the law is against my human rights!” FFS!) but enforcing the short ban may be tricky.

Injure someone and proved to be your fault you get your licence removed automatically, serve whatever ban you may get sentenced with due to aggravating factors then you have to retest to get you licence back.

Liking the black box thing, dunno how you get on with speed limited cars but reasonable idea apart form the minor fact that they can still do 70 in a 30zone.

After saying all this, how would it do down if cyclists were banned from public roads for RLJ and cycling on footpaths?

>> Not been on a long journey in the car with kids, then? (Although my kids use tablets, dvd’s are so 90s…)

Missing the point somewhat. When personal freedom starts to impinge on the freedom and safety of others, is that right?

Not sure why kids watching a DVD impinges your freedom and safety?

Which driver would you rather have behind you:

Driver A) kids settled quietly in the back watching a film leaving him free to concentrate fully on the road

OR

Driver B) bored kids kicking up merry hell in the back, fighting with each other, shouting, unclipping seatbelts etc, and a stressed distracted driver turning round to try to deal with them.

(Yes I frequently deploy DVDs on long drives. Three hours in the car with two bored kids is not fun!)

aye ok khani, but impossible to enforce I’d have thought – also how do you go on riding your mtb at weekend if you’ve been banned on the roads? The driving ban is gonna be very difficult and as we know if you don’t get caught for doing stuff people won’t care and will ignore it.

After saying all this, how would it do down if cyclists were banned from public roads for RLJ and cycling on footpaths?

The huge difference is the potential for harm.
Motor vehicles injure 200,000 people a year on our roads. Bikes don’t.

That’s not to say that cyclists should be immune. They shouldn’t be and I’m quite happy for the police to issue fines etc for cyclists RLJing – provided that they do the same thing for cars RLJing at the same time!

It’s more complex than simply handing out punishments IMHO.

I regularly commute out of London towards the South East, through some very busy routes competing for space on the roads. I have to say that the vast majority of drivers are absolutely fine, they’re courteous, they give plenty of space and they’re bike aware. I’ve had to stop a few drivers and point out that either they’ve gotten too close or ask if they’re seen me, but all bar one have apologised and it’s been resolved with a handshake and a cheerio. One threatened to kill me after attempting to nerf me off my bike, but I now wear a helmet cam and I’ve not seen this particular miscreant in eighteen months since then.

The drivers on my local rural roads are a different breed…they don’t give me enough space when they overtake, they think nothing of pulling in front of me at junctions and they generally behave as if I have no right to be on the road. I’m sure that if I pulled them over and tapped on the window to discuss it would be fine, but they aren’t bike aware. Throwing the book at them won’t help my cause, but proper education will.

If you make people in their cars feel threatened then they’ll behave very defensively. The woman in a people carrier who tried to force me out of the way the other day actually looked terrified in her car. I actually felt sorry for her…

Agree with bans for bad driving but again who is going to enforce it. Also heavy penalties for pedestrians who just walk into the road without looking because their phone call is more important than their life. Also cyclist who treat the road like a race track or those that are just plain stupid like the idiot that held onto my roof rails the other week when I was in the car. The cyclist too who came straight out of a junction in front of me when I was on a bright orange KTM with the headlight shining and exhausts loud enough to wake to the dead. Very nearly hit him, left me shaken as well as him but apparently he hadn’t seen me.
Again who’ll enforce it?

This has come off the back of a commute where I saw a lady with a child in the car remove her glasses to apply eye makeup, and another young lady smoking and texting while driving. I see plenty of blokes doing daft stuff too but just not today!

Seen this way too often but usually they’re on phone as they drift into another lane. The “Careful children on board” sign stuck to the rear window of their cars should be hung from the windscreens to remind the driver of their duty to care for their passengers.

One thing that is obvious is that the current system of points is very broken.

In 2011 the Independent on Sunday revealed that 43% of drivers with 12 or more points did not get a ban. One driver in Swindon had 39 POINTS and was still allowed to drive!

A couple of years later after a supposed crackdown and there are still 8000 drivers on the road with 12 or more points including a bloke with 36 points.

provided that they do the same thing for cars RLJing at the same time!

police have done a few stings near work, I don’t ride through that junction anymore anyway but they quite obviously weren’t stopping drivers so I presume they wait for red, wait for the “only just reds” and then start reeling in riders who go through on blatant reds. If not it does beg the question what happens if a cyclist and driver both go through on “only just reds” as I used to quite often (if I see the light I’m approaching flick to amber and the driver behind me guns the engine to go through no way am I braking) presumably the cyclist gets stopped, receives a talking to/fine and the driver gets….. home on time?

D0NK: And of course, despite popular opinion, there isn’t really any such thing as an “only just red”.

Going through amber when you could have safely stopped is exactly the same offence as going through red, so anyone gunning it to go through on amber is likely breaking the law.

Sadly, like speed limits, ASL boxes, and parking restrictions, this is another “optional” driving law that few people pay any heed to.

Going through amber when you could have safely stopped is exactly the same offence as going through red

was trying to explain this to my son the other day, he was having difficulty with the concept that yellow meant stop too, he is only 4 tho, still time for me to get the message across 🙂

I’m pretty sure drivers entering the ASL box on an amber/red light is also the same “failing to stop” offence.

But everyone knows it’s only those pesky scofflaw cyclists that red light jump yeah? 😉

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2akcsMtbU[/video]

Loving the PCSOs at the end just ignoring it.

Re the cabs, surely wilful ignoring of lights should be a revokation of licence.

Why worry . Our current system doesn’t approve of punishment.
If it did the penalties would actually make people think about their crimes.
I would start by adding 2 zeros to all fines. Then rounding up to the nearest thousand. The points threshold would half.
Bans would be a minimum of 5 years and anything that caused death would be life bans. Any breaking of bans would mean life bans and any breaking of those would be 10 years inside minimum. Seems harsh.
Not really, we are just used to pointlessly low sentences.
Mitigating circumstances? None.
However failure on the injured party to be abiding by the law as well negates any crime.
So no lights after dark and its your fault.

anything that caused death would be life bans

Agree on this. Death by dangerous or careless driving should be an automatic lifetime ban.

I can’t see why it should be anything else. They have demonstrated they can’t be trusted to be in charge of a car and have killed someone as a result, why would you give them another go at it???

Which driver would you rather have behind you:

Driver A) kids settled quietly in the back watching a film leaving him free to concentrate fully on the road

OR

Driver B) bored kids kicking up merry hell in the back, fighting with each other, shouting, unclipping seatbelts etc, and a stressed distracted driver turning round to try to deal with them.
B led directly to the death of a mother in Chippenham who turned around to admonish the kids, and drove straight into the front of a large truck. Poor trucker could do nothing to avoid her, she just went straight across the road into him. Neither vehicle was doing more than 30mph.

Some interesting views coming out here. Seems that enforcement is a major problem in implementing something new.

I see a lot of mobile phone use/smoking etc. in rush hour when traffic is moving slowly. I reckon cameras with decent definition placed in the right places across city centres could just pick people off at a rapid rate. Take photo > send letter > collect money/license from offender.