Which do you reckon built on hope pro IIs for a Nomad for use in this country and the yearly trip to Alps? Which is best for more aggressive trail riding? This will be my one wheel set for a while but will eventually go for 823 , on Hope pro IIs as well 🙂

Flows all the way. Give a much better profile to the tyres due to their extra width. Yes you have to use a special tape to turn them into tubeless, but this is a price worth paying for the extra width at no extra weight penalty.

don't forget that to use 819's tubless you also need that special tape too, since they are only designed to be used with those heavy horrible UST tyres that are a pain in the posterior (from many years experiance) – having moved to the stans system, I won't touch UST… and thus can't see the point of 819's. (although having said that, the 819's are bloody strong.. but they are also bloody heavy)

Why would you "upgrade" to 823s?

Flows are better than both and wider

My 819's seem pretty strong in that they havnt gone out of true, however i have put a few dings into the sidewall. My flows seem better (ive only had them a few months but they have seen some hard riding).

Are we talking Hope Hoops here? Was going to build up myself, but the cost of the parts was way more than buying Hope Hoops built up with Flows and having a quick fettle (not really needed TBH).

I went UST tyre (LUST high roller) with just the yellow rim tape. I think next time I'll go "normal" tyre and buy the Stans rim tape. Whilst I like the thick wall protection of the UST and they blew up first time with a track pump on the flows and keep their inflation for weeks on end, they are not light.

don't forget that to use 819's tubless you also need that special tape too, since they are only designed to be used with those heavy horrible UST tyres

?? I use normal (non tubeless) tyres on 819s without any tape, just a bit of sealant.

ROFL – Flows are better than 823s?

how?

Replaced my EX823s with Flow rims about 15 months ago. Generally quite hard on kit – most of my riding is rocky DH tracks. Can't fault the Flow rims and they're a lot lighter than the EX823s. Still using Maxxis DH UST tyres with no problems, i.e. no burping, inflate with a track pump. Why bother with two pairs when one will do? Bought them from the nice people at justridingalong.com.

GW – Member

ROFL – Flows are better than 823s?

how?

How not?

HITMAN – Gravity dropper for sale if you are interested.
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-gravity-dropper-classic-multi#post-555103

well, I'm pretty sure they won't be as strong. 🙄

why?

Does anybody know what the real weight difference is?

The 819 does not include the extra nipple bits IIRC and the flows does not include the stans strips.

I too am torn between 819 handbuilt and flow hoops. I don't really want a downhill rim just something stronger than 717s. I was going to get 819s but then flows look about the same, stronger lighter and cheaper but that can't be right can it?

Rolf – cheers re:Gravity Dropper but wrong size, I need 30.9

Went for 819s in the end

i ran 819's for a good couple of years – few dings, but recommended as a rim if you want to go tubeless……….

can't comment on the flow;'s however – none of my mates use 'em…….

shim to 30.9. GD doesn't come in 30.9

had 819's in 26" and have flows in 29". both have proved to be strong enough for me. 819's (26er) about 510gr including nipple peices, flows about 520gr (29")without strips, but i only use the thin yellow strips which weigh next to nothing. 26er flows will be lighter than 819's.
i prefer the flows plus yellow strip, easier to get tyres inflated and sealed. wider, so you still get more volume whatever tyre you use. had occasional burping with both and some pinch flats (through the tyre sidewall) on the 819's only.
also have some stans arch in 29". they are the same width as 819's and light but i'd rate them stronger than 717's.

Arch's aren't available as hoops, otherwise it would be a no brainer.

i would go for stans flow rims.

Though totally disagree with misterT about tubeless tyres. I run tubeless tyres on 819's, or stans rims with yellow tape, a valve and tubeless tyres. wouldn't touch std tyres tubeless.
Pop tyre on, pump up. done.

Pop tyre on, pump up. done.

I get much the same effect with standard and TR/2bliss type tyres on 819s. No need for heavy UST.

stans flow = 470g
823 inc inserts = 716g
819 inc inserts = 507g

823s and Flows have a very similar internal width. flows have no eyelets (so should be weaker there for a start) and even taking the 54g off for the mavic inserts with an 823 there's still a good 190g more meat in an 823.
I'd be very surprised if flows would hold up as well as 823s

but if you want a strong but light tubeless rim that'll give a decent profile with big tyres (2.5 and above) I'd go for flows over 819s.

if you are looking at sub 500g rims you probably aren't going to be using dual ply tyres, and if you are getting away with running single plys you are not probably not riding anywhere close to what an 823 was designed to be used for.

FWIW i've had friends racing dh on a set of pro2's on flows for a couple years, with no trouble, minor out of true and a couple minor dings that pulled straight out, so nothing major. for a couple years dh abuse, pretty damn good!
i don't think i'd bother going for all the extra weight of 823's with no benefit!

Ridden all of the above: 819, 823 and Flows, on a variety of hubs.

819 is no good for big tyres – its a UST XC rim
823 is a great rim, but pretty heavy
Flows are light and strong (well, I'm not the smoothest rider and I've used them for the last 6 months at UK DH races and the Megavalanche and they have been perfect). I run them with Dual-ply tyres for DH stuff on my big bike and lighter tyres on my hardtail and have to say they have been superb. Pop up normal tyres as easily as you can pop up UST on a 819/823 rim using the rim strips. All in all, really impressed so far.

Gavin – hmmm.. good to hear.. may I enquire how heavy you are? and what UK tracks?

Hey GW, I've ridden them at Stainburn, Wharncliffe, Moelfre, Inners, Dunkeld (ouch), as well as loads of stuff in the Lakes and Peak area. I guess the greatest test I've put them through was the Mega in the last month and they were faultless – just no hassles: they pop on tyres easily enough, they stay true even whilst taking a huge amount of abuse, and they are nice and wide, so the tyres have a nice wide profile. All good IME.

ps. I'm 83kg

pps. I also found 819 rims super-strong too, although they struggled to give a good profile when fitting anything over a 2.25 tyre. You could really start noticing the tyre 'rolling' on corners. No such issue with the 823, and that is even stronger, but a chunk heavier.

I am just about to pull the trigger and get Flow rims, build them with DT Swiss 440s. That would be nice lightweight race wheelset 🙂

I don't know about the heavier stans tims but I have found the walls on my olympics to damage easily (though not to the point of losing the tyre or leaking) in comparison to 819's.

Mavic 823's for 5 years here with Michelin 2.5" DH tyres – awesome performance on my DH type 6-7" full suss bike with no problems whatsover (other than the heft).

2 months with Flow Hoops on my Pike'd Hardtail with the same tyres and the front rim is a little bent. My worry is I'm not sure when I did it so can't gauge how strong or weak the rim was – but I'm a little dissapointed.

Thanks Gavin.

I'm probably 10kg heavier than you… a couple of friends are running the flows for DH and they seem to be holding up for them but they weigh way less than me so I'm still not convinced they'd last under me. 😕

Its worth noting that the Flow sidewall is not very tall. The material saved from along both sidewalls of the rim is 're-allocated' into the centre. The box section design is also supposed to provide greater strength because of this extra material, and the fact that the rim isn't as tall. This is the justification for flows not having eyelets – they say they don't need them.

That said, I still can't see them being up to the same abuse as 823's.

I'm using Flows for trail duties, being 93kgs and having a history of killing anything lighter than a 719/819.

They're holding up better that the 719's they replaced, and are easily tougher than the heavier DT 5.1 EX's I have on my other bike. I've had about 18months on them so far and have one small ding from pinch flatting a Nevegal UST.