If all 12 points are for speeding then She's in a whole lot of trouble, & in all honsety there is a problem here, that needs to be addressed

Yeah, her bloody eyesight!

Speed doesn't kill, but overtaking a patrol car, losing it at 100mph+, then flying through the air and hitting a bridge can:

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/video:-i-675-crash-caught-on-tape

(actually the guy survived this!)

"she needs her licence for her job"

Natural selection in motion…

bikes at a significant margin above the limit are potentially on you quicker than the pull out maneuver

Also, following on from my last comment, the speed of bikes is considerably harder to judge than cars from an observer's perspective. That, and some people have an innate ability to see anything that's not a car.

So the problem there isn't solely the speeding drivers,

But in the event of an accident, if it is proven the driver was speeding (through measurements/accident damage etc), they will be found at fault.

No, but they can (and are in fact specifically trained to) tell whether you're Driving Without Due Care.

Very limited criteria to make that assessment though I am sure.

Slow drivers driving slowly are often not the most competent, not the most aware and / or not the most experienced.

You mis-understand. I'm not saying that a driver who you see going slowly is safe (obviously).

I'm saying that the faster you go, the less safe you are given all other variables remain constant.

The safest way is to find an appropriate middle ground. Statistics bear this out.

We agree. I've never advocated trundling around at 20mph. I think sticking to the speed limit is a good idea in general. I also think that learning to drive to a given speed is a good idea. It's not that hard.

I reckon I definitely hit 150 around here but I'm not sure now if it was a 30 limit – I can't remember what the sign said, it was a few years ago

If it was during the NW200 or similar then yes, OK, well done. If not then it was just stupid

Cougar – that is true, but is categorically not my point… and I am a bike rider so try to make doubly sure I get it right.

My point is – at junctions with limited visibility, say 50m, pulling out in front of traffic at 30 gives you a safe time margin to pull into the flow. A bike doing 60 is actually blind to you until you are partly through the maneuver – not a case of "sorry mate I didn't see you" – more "sorry mate you still weren't there to be seen".

Naturally this difference in speed applies to all vehicles, but bikes are able to accelerate up to high speed in situations where it is unusual for other road users to be able to.

The inability of a driver to select an appropriate speed for their ability, conditions and environment can be.

How can she miss the warning sign- big usually, kinda bit of a clue… then the bright yellow box and finally the markings on the road.

Does she often wear dark sunglasses on cloudy days? 😆

Regarding the safety of driving slowly – my parents have started trundling around the UK motorway network at 50…

… we now have serious concerns about the safety of letting them take our kids in the car with them…

… which troubles me deeply

my parents have started trundling around the UK motorway network at 50…

That's clearly too slow – I'm suggesting 30 in town instead of 45, or 70-80 on the motorway instead of 90-100

PMSL

"she needs her licence for her job"

Natural selection in motion…

speeding doesnt kill. bad driving kills.

Not seeing a speed camera is bad driving. (Well, bad observation.)

I always wondered why people do 50 on a motorway. If you're doing 50, you're not in any hurry; if you're not in any hurry, why use a motorway when there's plenty of more scenic alternatives?

not a case of "sorry mate I didn't see you" – more "sorry mate you still weren't there to be seen".

Agreed (as a fellow biker). But then we're back to appropriate speed; doing 60 in a 30 round a blind bend, you're asking for the emergency services to bring a spatula.

Not seeing a speed camera is bad driving. (Well, bad observation.)

Precisely.

always wondered why people do 50 on a motorway. If you're doing 50, you're not in any hurry; if you're not in any hurry, why use a motorway when there's plenty of more scenic alternatives?

wow, just wow!

Speed limits in towns and on dangerous road help save lives and limit accidents, just an much as not driving like a c*nt does too. Yes I'm talking to the Merc driver who undertook me on a roundabout the other day if you happen to be him.

Put simply I've become a much better driver since I got a ban (that I deserved, although going from cameras that didn't work to cameras that suddenly worked took me over the edge very quickly) through an accumulation of points. I had to ride and get the bus to places for a while, luckily for me my job didn't depend on it, but if it had I'd probably have been a damn site more careful. Lesson learned I think. Move on.

Oh, and her insurance will be a beaut if she does get a ban and wants to drive again, I'd recommend hunting for cheap small cars if I were you – keeps your premiums up for at least 5 years too, such fond memories!

I once was driving a minibus on a 2 lane dual carriageway. Overtook a lorry, looked in mirror to pull back in, saw clear road. Looked over shoulder and started to move, and a car came flying up the inside slaloming between the lorry and me at well over 100mph. I was JUST about to make my manoeuvre, so just avoided a big big smash.

The point was that his speed endangered us all because when I first looked there was no-one, and in the second between then and when I started to move, he'd appeared from behind the lorry. If he'd been going slower there would have been no issue. Secondly, because I was relaxed and driving and making my manoeuvres at a relaxed pace, I had time to avoid a smash.

This is what they mean when they say 'speed kills'. More accurately, it should say 'less speed gives us all second and third chances'.

She may be guilty of speeding. But the burden of proof is on the authorities.

Ask to see the evidence. Usually they provide a blurry photo and you can't see who was driving at the time. If you're just one of a number of drivers who can drive the car, they can't prove either way that it was your wife who was driving. Unless she's the only female of course.

You're entitled to see the evidence and build your case from there.

One thing is for certain, you must provide a name for the driver so they can prosecute. Then they will send you a letter with a court date etc. When you receive this you can then retract your statement citing that you don't remember who was driving at the time. More often than not, this gets the case dropped.

I could be talking from experience, but then, I might not be.

She may be guilty of speeding. But the burden of proof is on the authorities.

Ask to see the evidence. Usually they provide a blurry photo and you can't see who was driving at the time. If you're just one of a number of drivers who can drive the car, they can't prove either way that it was your wife who was driving. Unless she's the only female of course.

You're entitled to see the evidence and build your case from there.

One thing is for certain, you must provide a name for the driver so they can prosecute. Then they will send you a letter with a court date etc. When you receive this you can then retract your statement citing that you don't remember who was driving at the time. More often than not, this gets the case dropped.

I could be talking from experience, but then, I might not be.

I'd never offer someone with 9points any advice. What if she gets off and doesn't notice a cyclist on a cloudy morning in a couple of weeks because of such helpful advice?

Let her be taken off the road. It may make her wake up.

If that's what they mean then speed kills is completely the wrong phrase. It sounds like that was undertaking which should always be done with a lot of caution, but is becoming increasingly needed given the teats that sit in the middle lane as they're scared of overtaking anything

I'm not advocating the move, just merely responding to the OP.

Even so, the burden of proof IS on the authorities and to get the process of prosecution spot on.

my parents have started trundling around the UK motorway network at 50…

That's clearly too slow

Why lorries are limited to 56 mph and the speed limit is the maximum permitted speed not a target to aim for.
50 seems reasonabl ish
PS 20 years ago on STW we would all have been arguing about how it was not the being drunk that was the danger but the driver etc hopefully our children's attitudes will be as different over speed as our generations is over drink driving from our parents.

but is becoming increasingly needed given the teats that sit in the middle lane as they're scared of overtaking anything

Don't. Just don't. Seeing more and more of this. No particular group or stereotype that can be applied above a fixed stare and almost complete oblivion as to what's going on around them. Bastards. Need banning.

Jesus – I post something up on my BB, go out and do some building then come back to all this!!! You guys are harsh!

Just to add some more fuel to the fire I'll explain the situation.

She had 3 points on her licence which are due to come off in Feb 2011. Last year she had a tough year, losing her business, then being made redundant twice in the same 12 months. She has now managed to find a great job and is doing exceptionally well at it, however initially she was having to get to places in parts of the country she was unfamiliar with. Wanting to do the best she could she was so focused on learning the job and doing well that this was something that slipped (at least that's what she says)

She got 3 points back in April, then another 3 in early June. At this point we had a massive argument and I told her to sort it out. She has done so and since then has been ridiculously cautious, plus the pressure of the new job has died down and she knows where he customers are. Now when she meets her boss and they go on to meetings her boss arrives 10mins before my wife because she is driving so slowly these days.

The annoying thing is after she got the last set in June and has had the wake up call – these extra 3 come up dating back to May it was like oh my god! She was in bits as she had been so careful since June and for these to appear in mid August was a gut kicker!

If theres clear evidence that she was speeding etc, then your only option is to plead your case in court. They might see fit to delay the points until her 3 points drop in february.

Courts generally aren't complete bastards, they will listen to your case as nothing is that clear cut. Even if some people here think it is, and thank god they aren't magistrates.

edit: If you think theres a grey area you could have it looked over by a solicitor who will advise how to plead. If they think you could please Not Guilty then they could possibly get her off on a technicality or lack of evidence. But if she ends up being prosecuted after pleading not guilty they will throw the book at her big time. So its up to her, hold her hands up and plead with the court, or fight it and possibly lose, in which case she'll get ban.

If you're going to drive fast you need to be constantly aware of what's going on around you, not seeing four speed traps would point towards observation issues.

I have a rather contrary view on that I have to say, if someone were speeding I'd rather they were observing the road, traffic and pedestrians rather than looking for cameras or cops standing way off the side of the road/sat in white vans. I don't know about you but my brain filters info in different conditions and by that I mean:
Driving down the road one family member notices the person driving the other way, what clothes they are wearing and remembers what their son was doing this week. I tend to see a car driving at me, might notice the colour (but probably not TBH) and treat it as an unimportant object that I need to avoid/observe its motion. One family member sees every sign but totally mis-judges the road conditions (wet/leaves/surface) whereas I'll drive at a speed I know is sensible for the area and may not have noticed the signs.

You guys are harsh!

I don't think they are, to be fair. What your missus had to do job-wise, where she had to be, her life pressures make absolutely **** all difference to someones kid that gets hit, or someone who loses a father. We all do it, but ultimately it's not really excusable and you can't play the "i was having a bad time" card.

Sorry to say it, as it sounds like she's been through a rough time, but 3 sets of 3 points in a 3 month period points to an underlying driving issue whether that be observation or awareness or some other thing.

Personally I think more than (note more than) 6 points in any rolling 12 month period should be an automatic holiday from driving

M60 in rush hour- the amount of times I've seen silly driving probably down to stressed commuters along with countless rear-end accidents etc. I call it 'silly hour'. No one can claim external factors are the cause.

Its you whose driving. After all you can't say 'sorry officer it wasn't me it was the redundancy that caused me to drive at speed and into the back of someone'.

Harsh but true. She could be keep her licence but she'd need to put this and evidence forward at a court hearing. She'd still have the points on her licence though.

I'm not sure if she'd keep her current job though.

RE: the 50 on a motorway point

Lories are doing 56, its actualy quite plesant pootling up in the MG at ~60mph overtaking them as and when. Very low stress motoring.

Now when she meets her boss and they go on to meetings her boss arrives 10mins before my wife because she is driving so slowly these days.

Why is she driving so slowly? Why not just drive to the speed limits? Why not set off early to allow for the fact that shes travelling slower?

Why is she driving so slowly? Why not just drive to the speed limits? Why not set off early to allow for the fact that shes travelling slower?

She is being cautious and making sure she is under the speed limit and stopping at amber and red lights etc. The point I was trying to make was that when her and her boss set off from the same place to go to a meeting her boss arrive way ahead of her so even her boss has seen that she is driving much more carefully.

I should add that the company have confirmed that the points we sent within 14 days it is just that they apparently have taken time to get to her fo some reason (don't understand this as the other points which happened later arrived sooner)

I think she'll either have a ban and a fine or a big fine and no ban. A friend who drove as a job had 17 points on his licence at one point and still was able to drive. I've told her best option is to go to court.

I once saw a car travelling very closely behind a lorry. So closely that I assumed it was being towed on one of those rigid tow bars.

It turned out it wasn't, the driver had actually chosen to follow the lorry about 2 feet off it's bumper.

And the driver of the car was shaving.

I kid you not.

:-O

and stopping at amber and red lights etc

Not stopping at lights as well as speeding?
Lucky not to have been banned ages ago.

She is being cautious and making sure she is under the speed limit and stopping at amber and red lights etc.

Er…

Unfortunately life does suck sometimes, but you have to appreciate that driving is a task that demands attention and responsibility.

Only ever time (touch wood) a car made contact with me whilst I was on my bike, a woman drove along side me and turned left, forcing me to follow her. Fortunately it was a big ish road and there was room for me to make my unindented left. I hammered on the window and shouted, but she just drove on. I followed her to a queue a few hundred yards down the road and spoke to her.. she said she'd just come from the hospital where her husband was blablah I didn't catch it all. But still – yes it sucks that your husband is in the hospital, but that doesn't excuse you almost putting me there too! If you aren't in a condition to drive, don't! End of! Phone a cab or a friend or something.

Harsh, but road accidents are harsher.

Re 60mph driving, I also have been enjoying this activity on weekend motorways with the caravan on the back. Very nice and relaxing, but I do wish the lorries were doing 60 also, since you still have to pass them. Or drive at 56 yourself, but this seems like a crawl!

Or bloody hurt someone. Especially if stress + the need to be places at certain times is a factor.

Now all she needs to do is get a tattoo and this lot'll burn her at the stake 😉

It turned out it wasn't, the driver had actually chosen to follow the lorry about 2 feet off it's bumper.

Haha, yeh I know a few lads who were travelling back from edinburgh to cumbria.

Managed to make it back on something stupid like 10 quids worth of fuel cos they basically followed a big wagon very closely.