Long story short: received a NIP for doing 34 in a 30 in November. Sent it back. Got offered a an awareness course. Forgot about it for a bit. Tried to book and there was nothing left. Didn’t hear anything so thought maybe they’d dropped it as I felt 34 was a touch harsh anyway (8am on a Saturday, 4 lane A road etc). Just received a summons! Nothing in between. More worryingly, the “witness statement” they’ve enclosed now states the charge as being 35 in a 30. The cynic in me says they’ve just changed it to meet the ACPO guidelines.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Miles

Any thoughts?

Turn up with both bits and ask is it 34 or 35? The magistrate/sherif/judge will love the ambiguity.

…Didn’t hear anything so thought maybe they’d dropped it…

So…. you broke the speed limit, got caught, and you’re trying to get away with it.

Awesome. Way’da be a good citizen.

Kettle on, biscuits all round.

before all hell brakes out, this is what you are looking for

Turn up with both bits and ask is it 34 or 35? The magistrate/sherif/judge will love the ambiguity

I’d ignore this new letter too. By ignoring the speed awareness course one you didn’t go on the course. If you don’t reply they’ll surely conlude it’s way too much bother to keep writing and drop the whole thing.

Red Bush tea please Pigface (look, I’m in the South ok?)

1. you shouldn’t have ‘forgotten’ about it – it was never going to go away once they have advised you of the NIP.
2. you’ve been summoned so theres not a lot point worrying about what could have been – you are going to court.
3. as above – take both bits of paper, admit the charge of speeding (you’ve not said you didn’t speed) but only the 34 and see what comes.

I’m all for sticking to speed limits to be honest, especially 30s, but I’m also for public bodies doing it correctly – I get slated if I make a mistake at work and it affects a client – don’t see why the public bodies shouldn’t be held to account for cockups. if that means you have a defense to get off (was it 35 or 34 or god forbid that they made more than one mistake 29?) then thats their tough.

Speeding advice

Don’t.

Is my non-expert advice.

I have custard creams today. The Brompton of the biscuit world.

I got a NIP in January for exceeding 30 in late December, it was a fair cop, I got the offer of the course and took it, very glad I did actually, and not just because it kept the points off my licence but it did make me think about how I judge speed and road conditions, challenged a few bad habits I had developed, generally I’ve slowed down lots and consider things a bit more as a result… I think everyone should go on a speed awareness course after say 10 years of driving irrespective of any offences, just as a refresher. but that’s just me.

It wasn’t hard to find a course and get booked on, there were loads of dates and locations to choose from.
IIRC they gave you something like two months just to book it, and you could take it anything up to six months in the future I think(???), the “Couldn’t find a slot” excuse is going to look really weak in court, and I’m sure they’ll be dead sympathetic when you turn up to quibble about a rounding error on a letter. you’d have been offered the course at 34 or 35mph, so what’s the point?

Hope you enjoy your day in court, your fine and your six points…

The Brompton of the biscuit world

Folds up small and easy to wheel around?

Folds up small and easy to wheel around?

Pointless unless you need to travel by train in the rush hour?

So…. you broke the speed limit, got caught, and you’re trying to get away with it.

Awesome. Way’da be a good citizen.

Have a word with yourself.

OP, go to court, explain your (to be frank, somewhat half-hearted) efforts to do the course (don’t bullshit them, they can check) and they may, for 35/30, give you the same as a fixed penalty would have been.

Pointless unless you need to travel by train in the rush hour?

Or maybe an overpriced urban biscuit, with no practical use outside of built up areas with extensive public transport networks?

To be fair I haven’t had one (custard cream) since I stopped working in London (never had a Brompton)

fancy losing the opportunity to do a speed awareness course! I got caught doing 100.00mph and was offered one, I booked the next available course there and then.

Would home made ginger fairings be OK?

With Yorkshire tea of course.

From memory both 34 and 35 are bigger numbers than 30 so I’m sure the magistrate or DJ will give the ambiguity about 30 seconds consideration before asking “well do you admit speeding or not?” if yes then 3 points and a fine and costs and victim surcharge if no then off for trial your word vs police see if you can make the court believe you might have been going under 30mph if not then 3 points a slightly bigger fine and a much bigger costs order and the victim surcharge .

+ 1 on the awareness course being useful. My biggest takeaway tip from it was to not change up from 4th to 5th or even 6th when in a 30 limit, as the gearing in modern cars encourages the driver to subconsciously be at a higher speed that 30mph if in 5th or 6th.

Ooooo, cup of coffee for me, no biscuits but white chocolate and ginger rocky road if you want some 🙂

Rich Tea for me please, I brought a few pitchforks and torches, just in case.

The Brompton of the biscuit world.

I was thinking more of I don’t get them, but they are every bl**dy where.

I’m sure the magistrate or DJ will give the ambiguity about 30 seconds consideration before asking “well do you admit speeding or not?”

The fact that you’ve been quoted two different speeds would through doubt over which was accurate; a good lawyer would probably get that thrown out. But based purely on your OP I’d hazard you wouldn’t be arsed to find one, so I’d suggest bracing yourself for a large fine.

+ 1 on the awareness course being useful.

-1 here, but we’ve discussed this at length previously.

My biggest takeaway tip from it was to not change up from 4th to 5th or even 6th when in a 30 limit, as the gearing in modern cars encourages the driver to subconsciously be at a higher speed that 30mph if in 5th or 6th.

Kill the environment, not a child.

That sounds like toot to me anyway, surely it’s easier to speed accidentally in a gear that’s still in its optimum power band? They teach you to drive at 30 in 4th gear rather than 3rd in driving lessons to keep revs low. I can’t imagine you’d do a lot of speeding if you drove around at an indicated 30mph in 6th gear. With your foot to the boards you might get to 31mph in about a week, if it hadn’t stalled first. I’ll try it on the way home FOR SCIENCE.

Best way of not speeding inadvertently, of course, is to pay bloody attention to what you’re doing. I reckon I could cruise at 30 or 40 pretty accurately without looking at the speedo.

35? That’s the gas chamber for you.

WINNER
“fancy losing the opportunity to do a speed awareness course! I got caught doing 100.00mph and was offered one, I booked the next available course there and then”

Now thats a result.

matt_outandabout – Member
The Brompton of the biscuit world.

I was thinking more of I don’t get them, but they are every bl**dy where.

And you know some **** is writing a blog about how awesome they are right now

The fact that you’ve been quoted two different speeds would throw doubt over which was accurate; a good lawyer would probably get that thrown out.

Unlikely.
I’ve seen lots of “little mistakes” in evidence and they’ll just right them in court (differences in speed, wrong location et cetera).

Plead guilty, plead early.

I have custard creams today. The Brompton of the biscuit world.

The most appropriate attire when sitting on one is a suit?

Tried to book and there was nothing left.

If only there was another option listed instead of the course! 🙂

Seriously though, don’t say any of the excuses and stuff you said in your OP when you get to court, just admit you messed up and take what’s coming.

You really don’t have any other options I don’t think.

Cougar I recon I am quite a good lawyer I am reasonably confident that having been quoted two speeds that are not vastly different and both over the limit will avail the op nothing if the case goes to trial . May be worth a punt if you have money to burn but given the most likely explanation is the speed was 34.something and has been rounded up in one document and down in another the court is still going to be sure that the speed exceeded 30 mph.

My biggest takeaway tip from it was to not change up from 4th to 5th or even 6th when in a 30 limit,

😯
My car feels fine in 3rd gear up to 30,not a Bugatti Veyron BTW just a humble 1.4 diesel

They teach you to drive at 30 in 4th gear rather than 3rd in driving lessons to keep revs low. I can’t imagine you’d do a lot of speeding if you drove around at an indicated 30mph in 6th gear. With your foot to the boards you might get to 31mph in about a week, if it hadn’t stalled first. I’ll try it on the way home FOR SCIENCE.

At the other end I hit the rev limit at about an indicated 33mph in 1st, so I’m guessing 30ish real. Plus it has the added safety feature that other people are more aware of your presence than normal.

Your all missing a trick here.
If you attend a course tea and biscuits are provided. And you learn new skills.

Edit and there is always one fool who thinks he knows the highway code in more detail than the corse instructor.

Does the course instructor ride a Brompton?

any experts about?

You’re not from round these parts are you?

Alway makes me chuckle the amount of people who don’t drive who reply to these sort of things.

I can’t imagine you’d do a lot of speeding if you drove around at an indicated 30mph in 6th gear. With your foot to the boards you might get to 31mph in about a week, if it hadn’t stalled first. I’ll try it on the way home FOR SCIENCE.

Just tried this. In 6th, putting the accelerator to the floor (past the kickdown) results in precisely nothing happening. It’s turning over so slowly that it’s on the edge of ‘lumpy’ like if you brake and don’t dip the clutch. In 5th it does pull away, slowly; took about ten seconds give or take to get up to 40, that’s in a 1.9L turbo diesel.

Cougar I recon I am quite a good lawyer I am reasonably confident that having been quoted two speeds that are not vastly different and both over the limit will avail the op nothing if the case goes to trial

Fair enough, I sit corrected.

and there is always one fool who thinks he knows the highway code in more detail than the corse instructor.

Well, it’s hard to know more of THC than “all of it.” I’d wager I knew as much as the instructor, aside from stuff that’s irrelevant to me like rules relating to caravans (I’d look it up first if I ever had to tow one).

34,35, what’s the difference. We talk about wanting a bit of common sense in policing, why can’t we have common sense when we get caught instead of trying to wriggle on technicalities.

As for “missing the point, you might learn something by doing a course”

Erm, you’ve kind of missed the point. He was offered a course but by being too disorganised to book one in 2 months, he’s had that option removed now.

Thanks for all the replies. I’m not trying to wriggle out of anything but, tbh and imo, a policeman would most certainly not have bothered to pull me over given the road, speed and conditions. 34 or 35 – what’s the difference? Well, 1 is within the tolerance that the ACPO advise and 1 is not. That’s a pretty significant difference I think.

Thanks again.

Miles