Looking for some new pedals, and optimally I'd like to put together a system which would allow me to:

— go downhill without being attached to the bike (beginner in the Alps, definitely don't want to be strapped in!)
— use toe clips with normal shoes (like on the way to the mountain down which I'm going to ride, which can be far)
— clip in with SPD for XC

… All with a minimum of fuss (i.e. without changing pedals, removing toe clips with a screw driver, etc.)

Was thinking of getting flat pedals with SPD, such as these, and then a toe clip which can be SPD clipped into the pedal.

But does such a thing as an "SPD clip in" toe clip exist?
If so, where can I find a pair?

Or does this whole thing make no sense?

How do you plan on unclipping your SPD shoes when theres a toeclip over them?

huh?

flat mode – the above pedal, normal shoes
toe clip mode – clip in the toe clip, normal shoes
SPD mode – unclip the toe clip, put it in my pocket, clip in the SPD shoes

my god why has no-one invented this before now?

oh, wait – it's because it's a guff idea

Ah ok- you want a QR toe clip fixing system.

you'd need some kind of bizzare 3 sided pedal?

Best comprimise is a flat pedal with toe clips (which when pulled shut would usualy hang beliw the pedal) but…………….

Toe clips dont add much to your power output, even guys who've pedaled "perfect circles" for years are in fact lucky to be removing 15% of their weight from the upstroke pedal, let alone actualy doing anyting usefull. From a biomechanical POV its near impossible to pull up, tendons would snap!

The power difference between SPD's and flats is mostly

a) in your mind
b) the soles of your trainers flexing.
c) the soels of your trainers compressing under power.

Just stick with flats.

exactly.

Kind of like this, but it doesn't look like this guy has a flat pedal mode. Plus it looks a***.

thisisnotaspoon — really?
I've used toe clips on my road bikes for years with normal shoes, as well as clip ins, and it seems a lot better. But maybe you're right it may be in my head. Or it could be the foot position on the pedal, rather than actually being strapped in…

Hmmmm…

wouldn't it be quicker to swap pedals anyway, can't take more than 60 seconds a side?

And the toe clips would cause more accidents then they'r worth flapping arround under the pedals reducing ground clearance.

About the reduced ground clearance — yes, that's why I want to be able to remove them at the top of the mountain…

Sounds like a dire idea! Why would you not just clip in while you're riding 'to the mountain'?

Toe clips do sod all!

The power difference between SPD's and flats is mostly

a) in your mind
b) the soles of your trainers flexing.
c) the soels of your trainers compressing under power.

Just stick with flats.

Really? Do you have any evidence for that? (not being facetious, genuinely curious!)

yup, arround 10-15% of the power gets lost in the soles of trainers, skate shoes are maginaly better.

The only time you pull up its when your in a high gear accelerating/climbing whilst stood up. And even then you'r actualy putting less power down with the good foot as it tends to be concentrated at 3/9oclock rather than being spread out more.

i'm sure there is alot of power in pulling up, and clipless systems are alot more efficient than flats. i would say you are better with just going for the spd pedals with a large flat. also u might be able to use "power grip" straps – google that and you'll know what u mean.

Danny

yup, arround 10-15% of the power gets lost in the soles of trainers, skate shoes are maginaly better

So you have 10-15% more power with SPDs? That seems like a hell of a lot to me!

It was in a journal (Sports Engineering IIRC?)

As a thought experiment, take a trainer and flex the sole, now imagine being pushed allong my that force, you'd be going a few mph at least. Reverse that and your beign pushed back by the force, you'r loosing a few mph.

The trainers were thought to be worse than the skate shoes as they flex more therefore you havent got a stable platform to push against.

SPD shoes in toe clips were as good as SPD's.

so your 1mph quicker on an average ride, but 50% more confident (and therefore 50% faster in corners/techical sections). He's in the alps, whats better, 1mph on the dead straight bits, or much better ont he technical bits?

15% is a lot, but

a) who rides in trainers (running shoes, not skate shoes)
b) 7-8% with skate shoes, its still significant, but as I said earlier, on technical terrain the flats will be faster indeirectly. And in reality, unless your already the slowest in your group, 0.5mph wont make a blind bit of difference.

It's the racer in me, I just think that an extra 50w on a climb is a hell of a lot!

Take your point though.

i'm sure there is alot of power in pulling up

hip flexors pull up, quads push down, which is the bigger muscle? Hip flexors only task is to lift the weight of your leg, which in a cycling position isn't very efficient, so the force is less than that required to lift the weight of your leg, about 85% less.

lol at argyle

"go downhill without being attached to the bike (beginner in the Alps, definitely don't want to be strapped in!)"
Why not?
So you want to use SPDs without learning to use them?

"that's why I want to be able to remove them at the top of the mountain… "
I think it'd be quicker to swap between SPD and flat pedals when nobody makes QR toeclips. You'll be caryring an allen key anyway I presume. Flat pedals will probably take less space than a set of toe clips in a bag

"technical terrain the flats will be faster indeirectly"
Not if you were properly used to SPDs?

Basically I reckon you be best to try to learn to get used to SPDs if you aren't prepared to use flats all the time

basically the story is that I'm used to being strapped into my road bike. i like it, and suspect that I'll like it on my mountain bike as well.

But my friends are doing pretty hard-core downhill/freeride, and i want to go along and learn. They say that for that kind of riding, clips are suicide. Beginner or no beginner. So I figure I need flats, with normal shoes.

So I want…
– SPDs on 'normal' rides
– toe clips with normal shoes when I'm going into town/going up the mountain with my freeriding buddies
– to take off the toe clips to get flats with normal shoes when coming down the mountain with the freeriders

Maybe I'm just overthinking the whole thing.

IMO, basically, toe clips are dead and buried. I used them in 1990-91 then went to SPD, and alos BMX with flats.

To me, any 'normal' shoes = flats of some kind. I don't wear 'smart' shoes to work, but if I did, I'd use plastic pedals to avoid damaging the soles, or leave them at work and ride in trainers/SPDs.

If you're thinking of using the double sided SPD/flat pedals offroad, I can onlt suggest that you ditch that idea completely. It's an utter waste of time: The 'flat' side is too small to be any good and the SPD side is always the wrong way up, so you're forever trying to flip the pedal, which is worse for confidence than pure SPDs. I've seen people (Beginners) try them, and they VERY QUICKLY ditch them for proper SPDs or flats.

If you think you're gonna need flats for a certain ride, use them and be done with it.

Winwood used to make a SPD compatible clip/strap thingy you could add on.

They were gash.

LOL @ CaptF… 🙂

Why on earth one would think that is anthing other than gash I can only imagine 😕

peterpoddy — you think these would be too small as flats too? They look big in the pic…

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24996

powergrips?

but really you are just better off with spuds perhaps you if don't want some proper ones perhaps some shimano DX's?

Winwood also make these.

They, too, are gash.

they look good to me.

all the suggested ways in my opinion are good, but how about a pedal spanner and plan the kind of ride beforehand, only takes a few minutes to change them.

IMHO SPDs help to 'smooth out' the pedal stroke on uphill technical sections. I can clean stuff in SPDs that I wouldn't be able to without them. BUT, I've been riding with SPDs for about 18 years and before that I had Look cleats for mountain biking. I use the old red and black DX SPD pedal with Northwave Gran Canion boots and run the SPD spring tension at fairly low levels.
Climb the hill in SPD shoes and then descend wearing a pair of 5.10s. OR, find a way of covering the cleat up to prevent engagement for the descent.

I used SPDs in the Alps and I'm still alive

A lot of the worlds best downhillers use SPDs, it's not exactly suicide! The trouble with any platform SPD shoe is that the clip part must always sit proud so you can clip in. That means if you're using normal shoes it's a very uneven surface.

Buy two pairs of pedals, swap as required.

Go with a decent set of flat pedals and some grippy shoes, it'll teach you how to ride correctly.

Your riding your mountain bike, not your road bike therefore do it properly.

In reply to a comment above that "you can't pull up with your pedals as your tendons would snap" If that is so how come I (and I think many others)can pedal one legged. And not just down hill actually, I can do it on the flat and even on slight rises. Maybe I'm some sort of cycling god? NO I'm not! If you're really nervous in spd's I'd go for flats.

Regardless of whether it's a crap idea or not, how about someone try to answer the guys question…

My cheapo Shimano SPD pedals that came bundled with a bike came with a plastic platform that clips onto one side of the pedal for people with no SPD shoes. From memory it has reflectors on it so you could remove the reflector and use the holes (might have to drill them out a bit) to fit clips instead. Let me see if I can find a pic…

Here you go, these should work. Shimano 505 I think. You could easily fit toe clips to the plastic pedal with a couple of holes and the whole shebang would unclip for SPD riding.

The platform from the other side:

Those plastic platforms are horrible things, they offer no grip. Might be ok with a toe clip attached though.

In reply to a comment above that "you can't pull up with your pedals as your tendons would snap" If that is so how come I (and I think many others)can pedal one legged. And not just down hill actually, I can do it on the flat and even on slight rises. Maybe I'm some sort of cycling god? NO I'm not! If you're really nervous in spd's I'd go for flats.

So can I, but there's no power on the up stroke, it's purely you'r momentum carrying you forewards and your hipflexors lifting up the leg/pedal. Which is why its only possible on a slight incline.

The hypothesis of the paper was that cyclists couldn't possibly pedal "perfect circles" they believed they were with both legs as the forces required were unachievable with the relative sizes of the muscles and would require a much higher tensile strength in your tendons.

Why you'd want them, I've no idea

But .. the only pedals I've ever seen that meet your criteria are spinning bike pedals
They're expensive & crap [even on a gym bike] but hey ho …….

http://www.tekfitness.co.uk/spd-pedal-set-w-toe-cages–straps-916-431-p.asp

well f*** me; they do – albeit gashly – exist!! 😯