That poor woman who felt she had no other choice but to kill her daughter and herself after all the abuse from local yobs.Why do some parents need to have someone tell them what to do?We worked it out for ourselves as did my mum and dad and theirs etc etc .Trouble is if god exists he seems to be having a laugh making some of the most feckless and useless the most fertile humans on the planet.Discipline in the home and at school knowing right from wrong hardly rocket science is it ?
I knew how to get round my dad but if i got on the wrong side of my mum well look out !!!!Only stayed out beyond bedtime once didn't do it again.Before you ask it wasn't a beating it didn't need to be !!!!

From your post it is not clear who you think is at fault here, who you are laying any blame on…

Trouble is if god exists he seems to be having a laugh making some of the most feckless and useless the most fertile humans on the planet

Short of sterilising people what do you suggest? There is a clearly a problem that needs to be sorted out. Pointing out what is obvious (to most of us) in parenting classes could possibly work. Maybe education would work better than punishment – worth a try?

Why do some parents need to have someone tell them what to do? most feckless and useless the most fertile humans

answered your own question/rant.

according to an interview with some yoofs in Barwell on R4 this morning, it's the fault of the council for not providing enough entertainment facilities for kids.

Oh so it's someone else's fault is it, funny, i'm sure i've heard that before.

tell you what, i've got some great entertainment for you, why not see who can jump from the highest window you can, the last one dead is the winner.

I've ridden my road bike through Barwell twice and on both occasions some boy racer has attempted to kill me.

Why do some parents need to have someone tell them what to do?
Because their parents brought them up without installing the basic information required to be a normal human being?

And does anyone think that the sort of person who allows their children to behave in this manner would act any differently if told to do so?

according to an interview with some yoofs in Barwell on R4 this morning, it's the fault of the council for not providing enough entertainment facilities for kids.

Yep, I heard that. They didn't exactly make a good case for themselves. Also, as soon as the mum was quoted as saying her son was 'no angel', I'd formed a complete picture of the family 🙂

Ian is right some people have come from backgrounds we could only imagine and they won't be as bad as they are in reality. You were fortunate and had a good upbringing, sadly it's made you oblivious to the fact others aren't so fortunate.

Lets imagine that you were brought up by parents who didn't care or were too stupid / drunk etc to do the job properly.

Now consider if you would know how to raise children properly, and if your children would know how to do it when they grow up…..

There is no point blaming anyone but the state for the burgeoning collapse of society. Severe failures in the provision of welfare and dealing with worklessness is where the problems lie in my mind.

Blaming the parents is a little too easy and the kids even more so, it's become a way of life for certain classes of people and we are getting into the third generation of it now. It'll take more than instruction on how to do more than drink stella and heat up microwave meals to get people out of this hole.

In this particular case the blame can be attributed to the failure of the Police, social services but the guilt should lie with the individuals concerned. You can bet the farm that if it's been one of their family they'd be blaming the perpetrators and not the support systems in place

I'd love to hear an inteviewer, when faced with the statement "He's no angel", to quantify exactly what that meant.

I suspect the school expulsions/ciminal record then listed would have most normal people re-categorising them as "Menace to Society"

And does anyone think that the sort of person who allows their children to behave in this manner would act any differently if told to do so?

Depends on what you mean by told. If you just mean told "Don't do that", then of course it will have zero effect. If you mean can they be educated to act differently, yes of course, but not necessarily realistically within any reasonable financial constraint.

There is no point blaming anyone but the state

Rubbish – we cannot make 'the state' accountable for individuals' actions.

provision of welfare and dealing with worklessness

Expand please…

There is no point blaming anyone but the state

While this is true when discussing the welfare of the woman concerned, it's not an answer to the root cause.

One interviewer on TV said he asked the father of one of the children identified if he thought his kid was responsible. The father apparently said 'That's for the authorities to determine'.

Which suggests that he doesn't feel he is responsible for his son's behaviour in anyway. I can only feel that while the state is being blamed, parents will do (as in this case) **** all to resolve the matter and at the end of the day, they're the only people who can really make a difference.

Rubbish – we cannot make 'the state' accountable for individuals' actions

I wasn't talking about individual actions, i was talking about the problem as a whole

Expand please…

By making it easier and more profitable to live off handouts from the government then to seek gainful employment.

Sounds like the Police failed but you can't just blame the state or society. It lies also with those responsible for raising the kids who the abuse. The state or society may well have not been aware of the circumstances, do you know what goes in the house next to you?

Well said Drac – the Police and her local authority were to blame for persistently ignoring her cries for help.

i hear pretty much everything that goes on in the house next to me 🙂

I remember, but can't quote the source, that parenting classes are really good way of improving the way kids are brought up, and long-term are very cheap compared with the costs of criminality & unemployment.

So there

Faults lies squarely with the parents here. OK so the police and social services let this family down in terms of their responsibility but ultimately the parents of the abusive kids should step up and accept some of the blame and so, in part, should the other 'caring' neighbours in the street who let this go on.

Those who are blaming the police, govt. etc seem to be the same folk who bleat about the nanny state when the govt. intervenes in matters that are historically regarded as for the individual's choice.

Why do some parents need to have someone tell them what to do?

Because their parents brought them up without installing the basic information required to be a normal human being?

Sadly, that's spot on. My Sister-in-law's a social worker and she sees this all the time – people who've been brought up with no love, attention, discipline etc who just don't have a clue about what being a parent means or even just how to show love towards someone. Those people DO need someone to tell them what to do.

Anyway…. I wouldn't worry about it too much. This kind of thing will soon be but a distant bad memory. Gordon's on the case

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/sep/29/gordon-brown-alan-johnson-antisocial

Brown will concentrate on the issue (anti-social behavior) in his conference speech, outlining a return to the Blairite agenda of tough measures on irresponsible parenting and social breakdown.

Its worked a treat so far Porridge-face

You want to try working with these feckless youth and you would quickly see why we need to intervene to help.

Whilst it is clearly a result of bad parenting (only once have I dealt with a YOT – Youth Offender- who did not have a history of deprevation / poor upbringing socio economic disadvantaged etc) we really have two choices.

1.We can pay for these people via benefits, police wages, crime , imprisonment
2.We can pay to try and make a positive change to their lives.

I know which one I would rather do.

The third way I guess would be to stop benefits and let them be feral and pay for mass crime — most lack the skills to work (would you employ them?) and at the minute there are no jobs for them anyway.

To blame the government for this is a little like blaming the governement for climate change … is it really their fault if we all drive cars or some parents choose to drink stella, watch Jeremy Kyle and not giuve ash1t about theirn "no angel " children?