I’ve been with my current employer for just over thwo and a half years. All fine. Had one raise at month 3 and was promised another 6months later and others following, which never happened.

Which is a common theme. Promises of bonuses, rises and other benefits and they pull out at the last second and either change their mind or just say they never agreed to it in the first place. Of course nothing is ever in writing.

A sales woman has started a few months ago. They forced her into a marketing role, she decided last week to go to the director (only a small company) and say “pay me more, else I’ll leave” and as a result has had a 40% raise.

Which does leave a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth, that we are promised things, and they never happen. She threatens to leave and gets a very significant raise, after such a short time of being here. Also they are giving her other bonuses and not other staff, which are not performance related, but just because “she needs them” (the directors words).

I’m the IT technician here and it is a tiny company (four staff) so things always get out quickly. This has just annoyed me and reduced me work ethics further as I’m doing nigh on 50hrs a week for a cr*ppy wage. Where she is never in before 9:15 (she needs to be at her desk by 9), leaves early, takes stupidly long lunches and the management do nothing except seemingly reward her.

Earlier this week, I was brought up on coming in after 8:30am, where my working hours do not start til 9am.
Also my hour lunch is not permitted to take more than 15mins unless I have it at my desk.

Yes I can see the above can been seen that there are some circumstances that may require some things. However this is hardly the case. The lateness is purely because she doesn’t want to leave her house before 8:30am. The bonuses are going to her wedding fund and the extra wage is purely as an incentive to stay.

You know you have issues – best to sort them out with your employer and tell them about the rights you have to lunch etc too.

And of course you have lots of employment law protection due to your length of service.

If you don’t like it walk.

Try your hand at the ‘pay up or else’. Be prepared to do the ‘or else’.

It may be the case that a good salesperson brings more value to the busniess than an IT monkey. Discuss.

Ouch! Working for smaller companies is pants sometimes isn’t it. I worked somewhere similar where someone who ‘gobbed off’ all the time got what she wanted just as she stuck up for herself with the boss.

It doesn’t seem fair though for you, I guess there’s not the usual channels to go through as far as complaining is there?

I think alot of business owners are now banking on people not wanting to leave due to there not being many jobs about but then why’s he paying her…. hmmmmmmmmm?

Had any issues about anything else with him?

“pay me more, else I’ll leave” and as a result has had a 40% raise

Do that.

My guess is that, she is fit, well your boss thinks so 😉

As 5thElefant posted, that and start looking elsewhere.

If you don’t like it walk.

Try your hand at the ‘pay up or else’. Be prepared to do the ‘or else’.

It may be the case that a good salesperson brings more value to the busniess than an IT monkey. Discuss.

Im trying to walk trust me, but I’d rather have somewhere to walk to first.

The Sales woman has made one sale since she started and it made a significant loss. The marketing side of her role is essentially getting a company in to do some SEO and that is all she has achieved.

Whereas the company is an IT consultancy company and I’m the only technicial person here. I have recently made entire new products for our portfolio, I have been out running training for customers. I have even put the marketing/sales woman in touch with the SEO company as they are old friends of mine.

So please tell me where there is more value in her role than mine?

1st question… Which of the directors is she shagging?
2nd question… Any of the directors swing the other way? (for you) 😈

Problem is that there’s a queue of people a mile long who could do your job. For half the pay. So you’re not in a great position to really lay down the law. The queue of people who could do her job is probably shorter, like a 1/4 of a mile. So maybe that counts for something.
Still, if you’re not getting ahead and are starting to get management calling you on petty sh_t then it’s time to look elsewhere. I’d line something else up before you start laying things out to the Boss though.

Before you issue an ultimatum – think about 2 questions…

1) Are your pay and conditions unreasonable by industry standards for your experience, skills and seniority?

2) How easily could you be replaced?

How she is treated may be unfair and hurtful to you – but is irrelevant to how you are paid unless you can prove that you do fundamentally the same job as her… which you don’t.

simonb512 – you need to challenge the director.

be calm list the thigns you do that you think give value to your role in the company. Avoid comparing yourself to the sales woman, just focus on what you do.

Say that you feel your pay doesn’t recognise the contribution you make and that you’d like it increased to £X (name a figure). Be prepared to negotiate a bit but if the answer is just ‘no’ then ask why, when your work has such value, there isn’t money to recognise your skills financially. If you still don’t get the response you want then start looking harder for a new job.

The Sales woman has made one sale since she started and it made a significant loss. The marketing side of her role is essentially getting a company in to do some SEO and that is all she has achieved.

Whereas the company is an IT consultancy company and I’m the only technicial person here. I have recently made entire new products for our portfolio, I have been out running training for customers. I have even put the marketing/sales woman in touch with the SEO company as they are old friends of mine.

So please tell me where there is more value in her role than mine?
Telling us won’t help. You need to be telling your boss.

More often than not people respond well. Like your marketing lady has demonstrated.

Before you issue an ultimatum – think about 2 questions…

1) Are your pay and conditions unreasonable by industry standards for your experience, skills and seniority?

2) How easily could you be replaced?

How she is treated may be unfair and hurtful to you – but is irrelevant to how you are paid unless you can prove that you do fundamentally the same job as her… which you don’t.

1. Pay is below market rate for what Im doing and for how Im qualified. Considering I’m doing PM, development, support, training, web development and other little bits for less than the national average it’s not great.

2. For what I do technically I guess I’m reasonably easy to replace. Which I guess is the issue.

Ok, so the stance is that Im worth less than her although I do more work, more hours, have a more professional role and end up dealing with whatever mess she makes, all because I can be replaced reasonably easily?

EDIT: realized my closing statement didnt make sense really.

Zippy thats exactly what I was thinking !!

Seems about par for the course in IT, in my jaded and bitter experience. I bet everyone you meet goes “you work in IT, you must be loaded” too, just to add insult to injury.

In maybe 20 years in IT, the only time I’ve ever got a significant pay increase is by changing jobs.

simonb512

most ski instructors get paid less than school teachers
male pornstars get paid less than female pornstars

That’s the market for you. If you are underpaid by industry standards, and are sure you can find another job, then have the conversation… but her treatment does not set a precedent for you.

But its not just that. Its more to do with the fact that she doesn’t do anything and what she does do she doesn’t do well. Of course the directors are always first to defend her.

I know Im just an IT person, but having 4 people in a company and being the only person that has no acknowledgment of the time or effort I put into anything leave me sour esp when people get rewarded for so little.

Plus I fail to see how most people can justify a 40% increase in wage.

she doesn’t do anything and what she does do she doesn’t do well. Of course the directors are always first to defend her.

She’s shagging one of the directors! Simple! I’d tread very carefully if I were you. In the event of any ‘situation’, You’ll be out of the door before she will

Ok, so the stance is that Im worth less than her although I do more work, more hours, have a more professional role and end up dealing with whatever mess she makes, all because I can be replaced reasonably easily?

Do not tell your boss that, and don’t tell them any of your colleagues are crap either.

Anyone can be replaced but it’s a lottery. If you genuinely believe you’re good then chances are your boss will agree with you. If they think you’re good they’ll pay to keep you.

It’s not complicated this stuff.

Top tip… keep a log of all the good stuff you do, and thankyou emails from clients and colleagues. Comes in handy when you ask for a pay rise, which you should be doing yearly at the very least.

The Sales woman has made one sale since she started and it made a significant loss. The marketing side of her role is essentially getting a company in to do some SEO and that is all she has achieved.

… and as a result has had a 40% raise.

She is a marketing genius

They can obviously afford to pay the bonuses and payrises oyu’ve been previously promised so i’d start there. Just higlight that you haven;t had these payrises yet and as newer employees have you think its only fair. The boss might just be keeping the purse strings closed because your not pushing the issue. If you don’t ask you don’t get

Just higlight that you haven;t had these payrises yet and as newer employees have you think its only fair.

What’s fair got to do with it? You’re worth the money or you’re not. Demand a pay rise based on performance not because of somebody else (which, at best, is none of your business).

They can obviously afford to pay the bonuses and payrises oyu’ve been previously promised so i’d start there. Just higlight that you haven;t had these payrises yet and as newer employees have you think its only fair. The boss might just be keeping the purse strings closed because your not pushing the issue. If you don’t ask you don’t get

this +1

but other than that, your description of her achievements is an argument for her to be paid less, not you to be paid more.

Perhaps she was on a really shit salary before. 100% of **** all is **** all.

And anyhoos – how do you know she has had such a pay rise??????

She’s shagging one of the directors! Simple! I’d tread very carefully if I were you. In the event of any ‘situation’, You’ll be out of the door before she will

She’s shagging one of the directors, yet saving for a wedding fund? If this is the case, I think an answer to Si’s salary issues is at hand.

Perhaps she was on a really shit salary before. 100% of **** all is **** all.

And anyhoos – how do you know she has had such a pay rise??????

She was on about the same as me which isnt too bad considering, but I still dont think this size of a raise is reasonable to be honest.

I had to work out the percentage for her as she couldnt work it out herself.

Because shes be waving it in everyone’s face? Plus the official letter (I’ve never seen the company put something in writing previously to be honest).

she isnt being rewarded, she is being encouraged
that may be a bad decision in your opinion, but its not your company

IME if you steam in there now and demand similar you will get the boot – id be very surprised if there was 40% slack in the payroll budget, so she has just bagged everyone elses payrises.

if you steam in there now and demand similar you will get the boot

Now I am no employment lawyer but asking for a pay rise is not reasonable grounds for dismissal.

(Although sometimes I wish it was).

But no-one has had a payrise in the past two years at all.

Plus the company isn’t doing too well anyway, which is why I’ve had to generate new products as the supplier of the existing one has decided to go direct to market.

So the consensus is that I shouldnt be annoyed at the fact that we’ve been after a payrise for years hes initially said yes and then forgets or nothing happens and now she wades in messes lots of stuff up and actually manages to get a raise out of it because she threatens to leave. And that I should like it or find a new job elsewhere.

The IT job market is dead othewise I’d of gone a while ago anyway, and I certainly don’t ‘like it’ so, just keep looking for other work, and once I get an offer make the same ‘threat’ seems ot be the only reasonable option?

Whereas the company is an IT consultancy company and I’m the only technicial person here.

Sounds like one crappy consultancy if you ask me, I’d be off without letting a reference from them stain my CV.

The IT job market is far from dead, I get offers fairly regularly but I’m happy where I’m at. get a CV together, post it on cwjobs, monster etc. and start applying. You’ll get some interviews and at worst it’ll boost your feelings of self worth a little. If you’ve no dependants and can afford it, contract whilst you figure out exactly what you want to do.

So the consensus is that I shouldnt be annoyed at the fact that we’ve been after a payrise for years hes initially said yes and then forgets or nothing happens and now she wades in messes lots of stuff up and gets a raise out of it because she threatens to leave. And that I should like it or find a new job elsewhere.

Yes. Sucks doesn’t it? But the problem is that this is the only path 100% in your hands. I sort of hit the same crossroads ten or so years back (bad pay, unreasonable expectations, little to no career development) but I knew I wasn’t going to get anymore from where I was – so I left. It was scary, but I don’t regret it for a nanosecond.

I love the assumption that because she’s female and had a pay rise she must be shagging one of the directors. -_-

In some companies the upper management value some job roles more than they’re worth, and value others too little. There are people who be utterly useless, but can talk the talk and play the game and it can be years before the management realise what the staff on the floor have known all along.

I worked at a place which had a guy who somehow managed to convince the directors he was awesome. He threatened to leave and was given a massive payrise and the option to ‘work from home’ two days a week, at a time when most of the team were about to be hammered with massive overtime and had just recieved their letters saying that pay reviews had been cancelled for the third year in a row. Everyone knew this because he was loudly bragging to his friend about it on his phone in the middle of his team area. Eventually he left, but it was eventually acknowledged that he’d not only failed to benefit the project, he’d actively harmed it. He wasn’t sleeping with any of the directors, he just excelled at saying the right things to the right people.

The only thing I can say is talk to your boss – under no circumstances directly mention this woman or her pay, just state your case and your worth to the company.

If that fails, wee in their shoes.

As others have said, your discussion with your boss (if you decide to have one), should be centred around what YOU are worth, and what YOU bring to the company. What she does/doesn’t do/get paid might be irritating, but it isn’t really relevant to your argument for a pay rise.

Do you get paid for going on the internet? Get back to work you lazy swine! 😆

Are ‘she’ and the director very ‘friendly’? 😀
Or even related

I love the assumption that because she’s female and had a pay rise she must be shagging one of the directors.

Nobodies assuming that because she’s female Mrs T. Its because she’s hopeless, and achieved nothing, yet has just received a 40% pay rise. Nobody else has had a pay rise despite delivering results.

Given those facts, you can see why somebody may reach those conclusions. If that was a bloke everyone would be asking similar questions.

I used to work with a girl who was absolutely useless at her job. Completely hopeless! And everyone knew it. Yet she was consistently given promotions and pay rises. I’m sure it was purely co-incidental that when one of the directors in particular was in, she’d come in dressed in virtually nothing and would disappear for ‘meetings’ with said director all day. Nobodies generalizing. But it does happen

You’re not being unreasonable.

I’m going to update this, although I doubt people will care much. 😛

The director called me in for a meeting. Which went ok but not great, didn’t get me raise as I didn’t want to ask whilst I was being told off. Apparently I’m not happy enough in the office, and its creating negativity in the atmosphere. Though its a case of no sh*t sherlock, I’m not happy as I feel undervalued.

To which he replied with word to the effect of if I leave he may well close the company. This may seems a gross exaggeration to you guys. However, it is pretty much the case for all the staff here. In that we all know the business, the customers the products and the business is really struggling. Struggling to the extent that no-one knows if it will exist the following quarter or even month.

I should of asked for a raise at this point, but thinking about it with my current circumstances it really doesn’t matter. I will be debt free before this company does eventually go under and at that point I can afford to get a sh*tty job and go back to uni as I missed my original opportunity due to a particular woman.

He’s told you that he’s aware you’re unhappy and that you’re critical to the business. And you didn’t say anything.

I think you need one of these.

IT bods a two-a-penny these days I’m afraid. Market is flooded and has been for the last 10 years. As someone said if you’re in IT and you want a good pay rise the only way is to work elsewhere. IT is still seen as a ‘service’.

Did you tell your boss that she is useless and has achieved nothing?

You’re not being unreasonable IMO for the record. You need to move on if you think you’re worth a lot more than you’re getting. Mind you, there are an aweful lot of people out there who would just like a job, any job.

you’re being treated the way your actions would imply is wholly appropriate