Are being handed over to Councils…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11912104/George-Osborne-unveils-radical-business-rates-overhaul.html

I expect they’ll get an equivalent cut of £26b in revenue for central government to make it revenue neutral.

Good or bad?

bad.

Considering local Councils have sod-all idea how businesses operate – then bad. They’ll just see it as a cash-cow.

bloody hell, that is going to hurt – they will milk, milk, milk and wonder why businesses are closing down

It’s a Tory policy so you need to see the very small print to know for sure.

On the face of it, it sounds neutral – taxes still being taken, which finds itself to public spending – you can argue about the route it takes, but that’s the long and short of it.

More specifically, it sounds okay – more regional devolution, which should make the UK slightly less London-centric.

But, that’s where the danger is – lets’ not mess about, since the 70’s the UK economy had changed almost completely – we no longer make and export much and all business focus has been London centric – London makes all the money, because ‘we’ spent 40 years making it so and this is distributed about the country to the people who have feed this transformation – the ‘small print’ will make the difference – will George now say – well, local councils here’s the rates we take in your area – but you can’t have £x from central government, because it’s only fair you should stand on your own feet – which could be the first step towards devolution for the North – some people want that, but I think without a separate currency to devalue to make production viable on a mass scale, they’ll struggle to complete with London on the grounds of slightly lower wages bills.

they will milk, milk, milk and wonder why businesses are closing down

from BBC:

Councils will be able to cut the tax as the current uniform rate will be axed.

But the Government said only councils with elected mayors would be able to raise rates, leading to claims that poorer councils would be worse off.

I think, for most councils it will mean competing with areas that have fewer ‘costs’ due to having a richer demographic that need less council support.

So areas that are ‘rich’ will attract businesses by having lower rates and the people who work in those businesses will travel from LA’s that need the money more but can’t cut their rates and also balance their budgets.

I can’t see it ending well.

My expectation is that the Tories will progressively cut the revenue from central government (to offer tax cuts to the rich) and then expect local councils to make up the difference by upping local taxes (or more cutting of local services).

So, I can’t see it ending well either….

Im not sure. For starters we need to wait and see if he actually changes the rules and implements this or if it is just more hot air PR rubbish. He and Dave do have a record on talking about changing the tax code, closing loopholes etc but they then seem to fail to actually make the changes they announce.

on the otherhand a local tax rate could work – I was in Switzerland last year (I know the demographic is totally diff and it prob wouldnt work here as the chocolate is much nicer over there) but they have a state income tax and a local income tax – so if you live in zurich your local is 15% and if you live 20km away it is 5% – seems to work for them.

Could be a possible way to redistribute from the richer to the poorer areas,

so if you live in zurich your local is 15% and if you live 20km away it is 5% – seems to work for them. Could be a possible way to redistribute from the richer to the poorer areas

I think this might be fought against by those who posted in the gentrification/cereal-cafe thread the other day.

P-Jay i don’t know what you do for a living but

we no longer make and export much

Is just plain wrong. 😕

In regards to business rates local Councils have a opportunity here BUT they will **** it up just like they have done in every town center they add charges to car parks and then wonder why all the shop shut. 🙄

Muppets the lot of them.

Im just trying to figure the angle by which serco, G4ss/ other tory donors,wonga?! etc will be contracted in to manage the system

we no longer make and export much

much of London’s economic activities would be exports, too, just not of physical objects

Never thought I’d see andyfla proposing the redistribution of wealth…. 😉

It’s the local mayor thing that worries me. Some Tory Minister was making an ass of herself on 5Live tonight when it was pointed out that Sheffield’s inhabitants were having a mayor foisted on them on the back of having these types of powers despite voting against having a mayor in a referendum.

She couldn’t see that being able to democratically choose a mayor from a list of candidates even though the local populace had already said that they didn’t want a mayor at all was not very democratic at all.

Anyway, this is all way too close to home and I’m probably in breach of the Civil Service Code already…. 😳

Good. Will give councils the ability to compete and attract new business to their area’s. Give them more powers to ensure businesses become part of the local community and contribute in other ways other than dishing cash about. Will give councils the ability to incentivise business to create apprenticeships and training schemes etc. The huge removal of the bureaucracy that is involved with dealing with central government.

It will also weed out and better expose the weak and crappy councils and put them at the mercy of the electorate.

I predict that the conservative councils will generally do better than the other parties councils and they’ll cry foul.

It is a con. London/south east centric. Favour to the few places that have a mayor. No government support for places that need injection of support our larger project building.

I predict that the conservative councils will generally do better than the other parties councils and they’ll cry foul.

Almost certainly, but mainly because when they adjust the direct government funding to remove the £26b it will be heavily biased against non Tory councils.

I predict that the conservative councils will generally do better than the other parties councils

.

😀

You obviously don’t have any experience of my hometown’s (Dunstable) relentlessly tory and hopeless council members

They should scrap the whole thing and have a business tax.

it seems ridiculous to me that only businesses with premises pay.

how about all the self employed working from home not paying anything, but probably earning a lot more than many in the retail sector.

They should scrap the whole thing and have a business tax.

They already do tax businesses on profits….

Looks like they will only get the effective power to cut them…

Town halls will automatically gain new tax powers only where they use them to do what Mr Osborne would like, and cut business rates. Councils who are instead interested in raising revenues for the common good face all sorts of obstacles. They must embrace the elected mayoral form of governance, which voters in most big British cities rejected in 2012. They must secure a “majority vote” among businesses in their local enterprise partnership, an unprecedented extension of the franchise from human beings to companies, from the same chancellor who went on to declare “power to the people”. Even after reshaping themselves into mayoralties and winning the backing of business ratepayers, town halls will still face an absolute cap on rises, probably set at 2p on the rate. You can have any colour of local democracy you like, as long as it’s blue.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/05/guardian-view-on-george-osborne-clever-chancellor

Cash, I am a positive communist liberal these days 😀

Hope your staff get the living wage!

oh well footflaps i had best stop paying the rates as i already pay a business tax.

all businesses should pay a business tax, as opposed to only those with a property or rented property paying an additional tax to corporation tax.

explain to me how its fair that a retailer pays a business rates tax and a self employed sparky pays nothing, no reflection of profit or turnover, staff anything.

I don’t pay any business rates – 100% small business rate relief up here. I thought they were doing the same in England?

I thought they were doing the same in England?

We get small business rate relief on our beach hut.

Just something else to blatantly benefit the Tory Heartlands in the South East, innit?

Quelle surprise!

The mayor thing is just as transparent. All the northern cities will elect labour mayors, because thats just what they do, who can then be blamed for the inevitable further cuts that this will result in to budgets that have already been ruthlessly slashed. The rich South East will be as immune to these cuts as they have been all along. Just a continuation of this really….

The thing thats being devolved here is blame.

My expectation is that the Tories will progressively cut the revenue from central government and then expect local councils to make up the difference by upping local taxes (or more cutting of local services).

That’s how it feels to me. Reduce grants to Local Authorities, so that the blame for tax gathering goes to the LA rather than central govt.

Mind you I can’t off hand think of any reason why it shouldn’t be that way.

Devolved power? In principle a good idea.

I generally think that Osborne is lucky rather than smart, but his latest moves have some logic. Major steal of Labour policies, bring in Adonis, devolve power on infrastructure and some revenue schemes and leave CMD to take the flak on tax credits. He moves back towards the centre, outflanks Boris and Theresa and Jezza at the same time. Blimey, its scary he might have a strategy. Which is almost as scary as..

“I’ve always been able to see the problems with government. Now I understand too the power of government to drive incredible, positive change.”

A new ideology 😉

For the critics – with responsibility (a good thing) comes accountability, even if the latter makes people feel uncomfortable.

The thing thats being devolved here is blame.

I am with binners.

( 😯 )

I’m not normally a fan of Binners political views but this

he thing thats being devolved here is blame.

Is spot on!

I also doubt that a theoretically incoming Labour/Liberal or UKIP government would reverse it either!

Listening to Call me Dave on R4 on the way in this morning, I was really angry in a way that I don’t usually get.
‘Yes we know 10% of families will be worse off – but it is OK, we are building them a better place for our business pals to make more money, and maybe put a couple of quid into the NHS. No I won’t acknowledge the squeezed middle and low earners getting royally done over for the next 5 years or so’

😈

This is not the stance of someone who inspires my trust, it has to be said.

The thing thats being devolved here is blame.

Brilliant summary!

Osborne is looking very pleased with himself at the moment, with the party faithful lapping it up, and hailing him as the king in waiting.

Its going to be a very different matter when the reality of the tax credits cuts hit exactly the ‘Hard Working Families’ that he’s now claiming to represent

Interesting proposal with IMO the key dynamic being the extra flexibility being offered to those councils who elect a mayor. London already has one of course and this policy plays to the Northern Powerhouse. With a mayor you can raise business rates, if you don’t have one you can only cut them. As per comments on to last night the devil will be in the detail which we will see later.

@binners so many on here want local democracy and blame the “Westmkster elite” for just about everything and now you are complaining that local independent and accountability is a bad thing, a trap ! Of course Osbourne looks pleased with himself in front of the Tory faithful and having just run an election campaign in which he delivered a Tory majority. With Labour and the LibDems in disarray he knows they have a golden opportunity to cement their position in government for a very long time

now you are complaining that local independent and accountability is a bad thing

Let’s take PCC’s as an example shall we? How have they done a better job than was done when LA’s etc were in control via a panel of people.

How are PCC’s any more accountable – they attract turnout of less than 10% of the electorate, very few people know what they actually do and hardly anyone knows who their one is.

local accountability and independence is fine but so often the way the detail is contructed is that there is no local control. Acadamies and Free Schools – where is the local accountability for those? Created by central government funded centrally by clawing money back from LA’s. LA’s are now specifically prohibiited from creating new schools, regardless of local demand.

This initiative will be the same, the illusion of local control but, in reality a mechanism for central government to cut LA funding and for LA’s to have no means to make the money up.

Don’t get me wrong Jammers. I think regional devolution is a great thing. And its something I give Osborne credit for. Its not just window dressing. He means it. And he’s been able to get the cooperation of labour councillors in the North because they feel totally abandoned by the Westminster labour party. Remember: Georges ‘ideas’ all came from a Labour policy review that was supported by Northern Councillors, yet rejected wholesale by Brown and a London-centric Party elite obsessed with centralised power.

Its great to see a change of direction. It makes perfect sense for decisions on Transport, Health, Business rates in Manchester to be taken by Manchester politicians, instead of some faceless Whitehall bod who went there for a couple of days to have a look around, then went back to London and started issuing dictats. The country has been desperate for these changes

But I do question his motives. Because these changes will be accompanied by huge budget cuts, on top of the massive cuts already instigated. And now you can bet your life that the Tory government will now just shrug, as the cuts bite – mainly in the poorer northern ares, not the south – and say ‘nothing to do with us’.

This initiative will be the same, the illusion of local control but, in reality a mechanism for central government to cut LA funding and for LA’s to have no means to make the money up.

Is basically Tory Policy in a nutshell, just make (preferably Labour) LAs look like they’re to blame for all the ‘unpopular’ policies we want pushed through.