The best tactic is to invest in Scotland now, because when England leaves the EU, Scottish independence will occur, and you will then still be able to trade with the EU.

You have to smile at the sensitivities that the Scots have to UK being equated with England, and yet seem happy to regularly ignore Wales and the other parts of the UK.

Narrow, nationalistic-centric? Me pal…….? Perhaps McFly were right all along!!

Two urban centres will be dominating the politics of the whole country soon….representative, me pal?

Yes, it’s a worry. This whole get out of Europe movement is extremely unsettling for business and is bound to affect investment.

The best tactic is to invest in Scotland now, because when England leaves the EU, Scottish independence will occur, and you will then still be able to trade with the EU.
Testify!

😀

Unfortunately for the No camp a 55:45 divide, while a clear win, didn’t deliver anything like enough of a margin for the matter to be totally put to bed. The Smith report itself is insisting that 67% is required for something as important as a consitutional question, so given the No campaign didn’t come anywhere near that then it’s not surprising that many think there could be another referendum with the next 10-20 years – especially given the likelyhood of political turmoil across the UK in the next few years.

Why not turn it around and give Glasgow independence from the UK. Lets face it they don’t like the UK (based on their voting at least) and the rest of the UK don’t like them, so everyone’s a winner 😆

teamhurtmore – Member
You have to smile at the sensitivities that the Scots have to UK being equated with England, and yet seem happy to regularly ignore Wales and the other parts of the UK…

Clutching at straws mate. I didn’t mention Wales or NI because I haven’t seen anything about them wanting out of EU.

Maybe we’ll even do a rUK with them while England sails off to oblivion in its make believe leaky imperial boat. 🙂

But on a more serious note, eat_more_cheese raised quite a valid point about uncertainty. Scotland is a provincial market, so its separation from the Uk was unlikely to have serious longterm effects on investment here, especially as the reality was that we would have remained in or re-entered the EU.

But the UK moving out of the EU, is much more serious. For companies wanting an English speaking base with access to EU markets, an non EU UK would be very unattractive.

Objectively the answer right now would be to not invest in the UK at all (including Scotland 🙁 ), and base the business in Eire. It has an open border with NI, so it allows a bet each way. I would be surprised if the Irish are not playing this card right now.

We live in uncertain times. “Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold”.

Gregor Townsend would be proud of such a sidestep. Don’t worry our friends in Wales are used to it by now and the rest of us understand the anti-English driver (excuse for all ills).

Dragon good idea – independent states of Glasgow and Dundee, and rUK – including Wales, N Ireland etc… Everyone’s a winner.

Re-entering the EU – the old automatic assumption!!! Plus ca change…..

eat_more_cheese – Member

What concerns me now is the lack of uncertainty in Scotland’s future-it can only lead to a lack of investment which in turn affects every single one of us living in Scotland.

No, remember only lack of certainty over independence is damaging to the economy. Lack of certainty over europe is absolutely fine.

teamhurtmore – Member
Funny how that argument only seems to work one way?

Why did so many SNP voters vote NO?tactical votes, not every SNP voter voted yes, but also not every non SNP voted no…

Anyhow, if people think this is going to go away, they are kidding themselves.

tbh i’d like to see the “yes” movement widen into wales and northern england, and further if possible.

It’s interesting that the enlightenment spread from scotland to the rest of the uk. lot of political thinking going on up here these days.

far as I see it’s the whole argument isn’t particularly about independence but it’s more about moving politics onto something better.. i’m still waiting to see the rumblings for more democracy from elsewhere in the UK.

Ultimately that’s what will split the UK imo, it’s a case of whether rUK wakes up to more democracy or sticks with the status quo..

The independence movement is more about democracy than nationalism. It is very much an amorphous people’s movement and not a monolithic thing that can be directed.

Utter BS. It’s SNP ideology pinned to any policies they fancy that week.

If we accept that the problem starts at the Watford gap, it raises the question of what are you doing about it in your part of the country?

I voted No in my part of the country. Like another 2,001,925 Scots.

From our perspective, it looks like you are swinging to an even more right wing version of what we are trying to get away from, so there doesn’t seem much prospect of a common cause.

And this rather betrays your prejudice that anyone against Scottish separatism must be a an English tory.

Do you really think two million Scottish tories came out of the woodwork and stole your referendum?

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9383482/the-national-shows-just-how-much-danger-the-union-and-scotland-is-still-in/

You missed the point as it related to rUK and Scotland finding a common purpose and they are clearly saying that rUK is swinging towards UKIP/ the right and scotland is rejecting this and being more left wing. They were not commenting on Scotland no voters at all.No tsure why you think they were tbh. Given there are more UKIP mp’s in england than Tory ones in Scotland it seems a reasonable point to make

bearGrease – Member
“The independence movement is more about democracy than nationalism. It is very much an amorphous people’s movement and not a monolithic thing that can be directed.”

Utter BS. It’s SNP ideology pinned to any policies they fancy that week.

So the LibDems for Independence, Labour for Independence, the Green party, RIC, Common Weal, and Wealthy Nation to name a few nonSNP political groups are actually SNP?

Dream on.

“From our perspective, it looks like you are swinging to an even more right wing version of what we are trying to get away from, so there doesn’t seem much prospect of a common cause.”

And this rather betrays your prejudice that anyone against Scottish separatism must be a an English tory.

I don’t know how you extrapolated prejudice from that. I specified the word perspective.

A perspective I might add that for those of us not resident in England, can only be obtained from the mainstream media.

So, does that mean you agree with us that the media are telling us lies?

There is no swing to the right. Current projections show a hung parliament with Labour requiring one seat for majority. So Scots do not have to worry about a conservative/UKIP/EDL/BNP coalition.

What is all this nonsense about Labour and the conservatives being in bed together? Some of the worst tripe I have ever come across, just because they were on the same side in the referendum does not make them bed mates. A politician saying something does not make it true I am afraid. 🙄

There is no swing to the right.

Is the rise of UKIP a lurch to the left then ?

What is all this nonsense about Labour and the conservatives being in bed together?

Not sure what you have read tbh have i missed something?

😆

Rise of UKIP is a splitting of the existing right I reckon, not an overall swing.

Ok – which left-of-centre UK party is likely to be in power next?

I’m actually interested if there is anything recording a genuine rise of the right.

Beyond that is, those already on the right either changing political allegiance. Or becoming less politically apathetic.

I know of a few UKIP voters, and they’ve always been that ‘way’ inclined but have either voted Tory* or not bothered to vote.

Scotroutes wins todays prize for out of date obscure graph from a website no one has heard of.

I suppose labour do look to the right of the SNP, but then again Labour are aiming to reduce the deficit rather than buy votes. It will be interesting to see how the SNPs figures for an independent Scotland stack up with the oil price set to hit rock bottom! There would have been some seriously austere times coming had Scotland chosen independence.

You mean “a website you’ve never heard of”. Do you think Labour have moved left since 2010?

The only way they could move left is to splash the cash, we don’t have any cash to splash I am afraid. Neither would Scotland if it was independent. Aren’t you glad Scotland is still a part of the UK?

No

There would have been some seriously austere times coming had Scotland chosen independence.

There are anyway, with most economic growth currently based on very London-centric jobs and a property bubble, wages still declining, and many more cuts to come. And that’s before businesses flee the country when the morons drag us out of Europe.

I guess we can rely on every scot to vote against leaving the EU then. Isn’t democracy a wonderful thing.

fasternotfatter – Member
…Isn’t democracy a wonderful thing.

It will be, when we get it.

Ben have you forgotten just how exposed the Scottish economy is to two very mature industries (one of which has volatile and currently low prices) and another one owned mainly by Johnny Foreigner?

ComRes EU Referendum Poll:

UK:
Stay: 32%
Leave: 48%

Scotland:
Stay: 45%
Leave: 36%

Blah blah, **** blah. Watch the money masters, then u will ‘see’ it doesn’t matter who ‘YOU’ vote for.
Stupid people.

Believing that is how they win.

Now that the independence movement is over I guess it is time to start making the UK work and campaigning for change that benefits the whole of the UK. I take it there will be a lot of positive voices from Scotland extolling the virtues of staying in the EU. After all an independent Scotland would not have wanted it’s biggest trading partner out of the EU would it? Potential import/export tariffs and a border to cross where you have to show your passport, this would not benefit Scotland at all. Rather than trying to show how divided Scotland is from the rUK shouldn’t Scots be working to keep the UK in the EU.

[img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img][img]http://www.mlehworld.com/mleh3/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif[/img]

Nice to see that my sense of humour is not lost on everyone 😆

shouldn’t Scots be working to keep the UK in the EU

The SNP and the Greens are committed to this, but unfortunately Scotland is outnumbered 10:1 – not much Scots can do when Westminster and the media (and the public in the rest of the UK) are going the opposite way.

OH just had to explain what “Red Tories” were to our 4-year-old, though – she saw a big banner saying “Red Tories Out” 😉

epicyclo – Member
fasternotfatter – Member
…Isn’t democracy a wonderful thing.
It will be, when we get it.

So just because you lost the vote, the issue becomes undemocratic???

Everyone stated what a wonderful example of democracy the referendum was including a very high turnout and a high level of engagement. Are you guys never satisfied.

There used to be a joke among E’burgh taxi drivers at the airport about the London shuttle – you could tell which plane it was because when the engines stopped you could hear (the English) whining, I think the target of that joke needs changing.

No wonder there is such support for the EU given it’s tradition of ignoring democratic decisions!

So just because you lost the vote, the issue becomes undemocratic???

The referendum was democratic. Westminster is not.

Ben certain aspects of Westminster are not democratic and could be improved. Labour are talking about replacing the lords with an elected senate, so things could be looking a lot better sooner than you think. Scottish votes could decide whether we have Cameron in charge again, So I don’t think Scots should be looking to punish Labour for being on the same side as the Tories in the independence referendum. I am not saying abandon the SNP but I wouldn’t rule out asking Scots to vote tactically to oust the Tories from Scotland.

Sorry, but that’s what we’re told time and time again. We need to vote Labour to get the Tories out. It’s our responsibility to protect everyone else from the Tories. We need to forget what’s best for Scotland and vote for what’s best for the UK.

Bollocks to that. We’ve tried it again and again, and look where it’s got us – there’s naff all difference between Labour and the Tories. Labour started the dismantling of the NHS with foundation hospitals. Labour was more than happy to go along with the Thatcherite privatisation agenda. Labour is firmly behind the UKIP-led anti-immigration policies.

No more.

Help me O BEN One COOPER you are our only hope

Labour are talking about replacing the lords with an elected senate, so things could be looking a lot better sooner than you think.

Or a lot worse….!