Mate of mine fancies doing snowdon he’s on about pushing up llanberis in the afternoon wanting to hit the top at 5 just in time to legitimately ride down rangers. I am considering joining him but would prefer to join llanberis path at 5 ride up and head down rangers a bit later when more walkers have dispersed. Trouble is with the travel and accommodation his plan (finishing about 6 instead of 8 or later with my plan) will workout a lot easier.
So is this (as I suspect) a bad idea? Weekday btw.
I guess another option would be to push up rangers, no chance of riding any of that once it starts heading upwards, so no-one should accuse us of riding, but are ramblers still going to get arsey about unnatural accompaniment?
and will rangers still be heavy with walkers at 5 on a week day?

thats our plan – can’t see an issue as the ban is voluntary anyway

I would suggest that just because you’re pushing the bike doesn’t mean that it won’t be considered as flouting the ban.

A mate and I have done this the last two years in the morning. Last year we had issues (my fault) getting to Llanberis early enough in the morning so we were still below the summit as the ban timing came into effect. We continued pushing and remained polite and friendly up the LLanberis path then left the bikes and walked up the final step to the summit area. We then rode down Rangers and avoided any real snotty comments. It did feel awkward though.

This year we did it properly. Summited early via the LLanberis path then down Rangers and were at Telegraph Valley by the time we needed to be.

Why not just start pushing up later in the day. Even setting off at 5pm you’ll be at the top by 7.30pm with loads of daylight left to head back down.

can’t see an issue as the ban is voluntary anyway

Which is a short sighted way of looking at it. My understanding is that the ban is voluntary as a compromise between freedom to ride and a full ban. Surely the last thing we as a riding community want is too much abuse of the status quo leading to a full clamp down. That’d be a shame.

Why not just start pushing up later in the day.

as I said accomodation/travel.

My understanding is that the ban is voluntary as a compromise

Yeah I would prefer not to do the early pushup thing but my militant side kicks in a little at this – a compromise would involve both parties nerfing access, as others have said in previous threads: we (mtbers) voluntarily banning ourselves and the ramblers letting us is stretching the definition of compromise a long way. Anyway we would voluntarily not be riding our bikes during the ban.
</arseymilitant>

One of my other concerns is how busy it will be, I’ve legitimately ridden down snowdon during a busy period, not something I want to repeat TBH

IMHO aggro is exacerbated by

1. number of cyclists in the group

2. Number of walkers on the trail

Small groups generally are acceptable/get less grief but that is a hardcore red sock area so i would expect some negative interaction at some point….play dumb/be diplomatic when caught

PS I hope it rains there as well 😉

No issue at all with pushing up inside ban. I think the biggest issue will be that the path may still be busy with walkers on the way down which will be no fun for them or you.

how is it flouting the ban – walking is walking whether you have a bike, walking frame, pair of walking sticks what ever

That could just be a lot of pain (pushing a bike up a mountain is few people’s idea of a fun activity) for very little gain (stopping/slowing every few yards to give way is no way to ride down a mountain).

To my mind riding down Rangers in the early evening is the worst time of day as all the walkers still up there are also heading downwards and don’t see you coming so even the considerate ones don’t get out of the way so you slow down to a crawl time and time again and risk startling folk (who then get stroppy) which is not fun for anyone.

with the travel and accommodation his plan (finishing about 6 instead of 8 or later with my plan) will workout a lot easier.

This is the nub of it.
The agreement is fragile, and what you are proposing is the narrow end of the wedge IMO.
Go later, man up on the later night to tea or accommodation.

No issue at all with pushing up inside ban. I think the biggest issue will be that the path may still be busy with walkers on the way down which will be no fun for them or you.

how is it flouting the ban – walking is walking whether you have a bike, walking frame, pair of walking sticks what ever

I think the ban is monitored by electronic counters that sense the wheels of the bike, so pushing would still count in the statistics that ultimately get used against ‘us’ even if you’re not flouting the spirit of the ban.

I’d wait till after 5, there’s plenty of places you could ride in the 2 hours or so beforehand. And if the logisitics really don’t work out then don’t ride it at all this time.

Yeah I would prefer not to do the early pushup thing but my militant side kicks in a little at this – a compromise would involve both parties nerfing access, as others have said in previous threads: we (mtbers) voluntarily banning ourselves and the ramblers letting us is stretching the definition of compromise a long way. Anyway we would voluntarily not be riding our bikes during the ban.

It’s a comprimise because the alternative was a ban, it’s too small a track, with too many people on it, so the minority users likely to be causing the majority of problems (when has a walker ever crashed into a walker by accident?). So rather than be banned the minority conceded they’d only use the track at quiet times of the day.

I live in Llanberis so can hopefully provide an informed opinion…

I’d recommend leaving after 5pm especially at this time of year.
On a sunny day, there are literally +1000 people on the hill.
Whilst there may be no issue with pushing up at the time you have suggested, do you really want to spend your ride down doing slalom with other hill users? It’s scary for them and no fun for you.

In my experience, you’d have a far more enjoyable experience leaving later. The Ranger will literally be deserted if you exit from the summit at 8pm. Even at dusk (10pm ish), the Llanberis pass can still contain +50-100 people.

School holidays? 🙂

You could always see what the weather’s like and how busy it is first.
Can’t really see any problem if it’s quiet.

Pray for rain.

I’d go for a play in the slate quarry then a mooch round the old bomb store, followed by a pizza and a pint at the Galt Y Gwyn.

walking is walking whether you have a bike,

not on a footpath, bike is an unnatural accompaniment and could get you into (a tiny bit of) trouble, but this is a special case bridleway.

what you are proposing is the narrow end of the wedge IMO.

hmm I would consider riding it as the thin end not pushing.

It’s a comprimise because the alternative was a ban

more of an ultimatum than a compromise then…?

I think the ban is monitored by electronic counters

is that right?

Cheers walterfury, as I suspected then.

I did the descent at 9am and encountered a few people on 3 parts of the Rangers trail.
They did not show any interest in getting out of the way and they were all walking up.
IMO it would be a Nightmare and a waste of time and effort to have to keep stopping to get walkers out of the way.
Do it in the morning!

As another local, and a guide on the mountain http://www.mtbguiding.co.uk , I’d like to echo other opinions here.

1. Pushing up at any time is unlikely to cause a problem per se, and I’m not sure about counters and wheels? But the problem is that a. you will definitely be descending a busy path – no fun for you or them and b. The walkers you pass will obviously realise that you were on the mountain a lot earlier than 5 and that will almost certainly form part of any complaint.

2. Yes, it’s voluntary but anybody who flouts it is just sticking 2 fingers up at all mountain bikers as we will all be banned from the mountain altogether.

3. A suggested route would be to start at the Ranger at whatever time you like. Go up and over Bwlch Maesgwm and down Telegraph Valley at whatever time you like. Then head back up Snowdon at around 5pm from Llanberis. You’ll top out by 7 and can then descend the Ranger back to the start – probably by 8, which isn’t too late to get some grub or check into accommodation.

Enjoy

Option 3 was my suggestion but 8pm finish (knowing us it’s likely to be later) then an hours drive, booking into campsite (not sure what latest allowed time is yet) and pitching tent (and trying to find food at somepoint) not ideal tho. Alternative being campsite first but an extra >2hours of driving.

I’ll pass on the advice anyway, cheers everyone.

I can recommend the camping here

http://www.gwynant.com/

not far to drive from Snowdon. Unless I’ve missed something in your original post then an option would be to head to the camp site in the afternoon, check in and pitch up. Drive to LLanberis (or wherever you choose to start from) and do the benign thing then back to the camp site for shower, BBQ and beer at sunset.

This year we were riding down the Rangers at around 9.30am and encountered 4 walkers / small groups on the way down. one was a militant solo red sock show just stood still in the middle of the trail as we rode past. One was a solo walker heading down who let us past and the others were small groups who seemed to be in awe of use choosing to ride down the trail and were far more impressed with what we were up to than annoyed in anyway.

I suspect that much later and we would have had a lot more traffic to contend with.

There’s also a campsite near Llyn Cwellyn, which is very close to the Ranger, and another at the Snowdonia Park, Waunfawr, which is a. close to the Ranger and b. has a pub that does food etc…

Fine to carry it, as long as you go up by one of the less busy routes

The voluntary agreement is specifically for cycling. That might seem a bit ruleslawyery but if you’re pushing a bike, you’re a walker, you’re not cycling, and frankly absolutely none of the reasons to restrict cyclists apply, there’s no trail contention or risk involved. I can see it could be politically unhelpful though.

Course, you might want to cycle bits instead of pushing.

No reason not to push up from LLanberis as far as the gate to the BW (a fair climb in itself), and have a sandwich/sit about until 5.

They did not show any interest in getting out of the way and they were all walking up.

Perhaps that would be because they have right of way? so were waiting for you to move?

IMO it would be a Nightmare and a waste of time and effort to have to keep stopping to get walkers out of the way.

How terrible for you..

Wheels? Bike? I wonder does the agreement just cover bikes, or is it all cycles? Surely even the most militant redsocks wouldn’t get upset at a unicycle? I feel a plan forming (from what I remember of it, I doubt there’s much I could ride up, but I reckon I could ride most of the down and it might actually be quite fun).

* ignoring that I don’t believe there’s really an electronic counter

aracer – Member

Wheels? Bike? I wonder does the agreement just cover bikes, or is it all cycles?

Looking at the website it says cycles. So no unicycles, tricycles, or menstrual cycles.

will stato relaise it is cycling forum ?

FWIW I do give way but it is almost always easier for a walker to get out of my/our way than vice versa. They tend to have 360 degree movement and we tend to be a bit linear and uni directional.

Bit of give and take IMHO.
Generally if i get a stand off like that I make it as hard for them to get past as they just made it for me whilst grinning broadly and being cheery.

YMethodMW

I’ve ridden it a few times on a unicycle; we always did it in April or October to avoid the ban. It was always busy, but we never had any problems at all on silly wheels.

The Llanberis track is great fun and totally rideable by muni. I know of people who have done the Rangers, but I’ve not tried it.

The only time I will ever get the urge to ride on Snowden is if bikes are banned.

is that right?

and I’m not sure about counters and wheels?

* ignoring that I don’t believe there’s really an electronic counter

http://www.nationalparks.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/429236/Visitor-impacts.pdf

“and to ensure that people adhere to the agreement, there are cycle counters in place.”

Can’t find the article/report but there was one last year or the year before (was the ban up for review or something?) and they had exact numbers of cyclists flouting the ban (and associated quotes from red socks about the danger to childrens faces and baby robins).

Found this : http://www.planetfear.com/articles/MTB_Roots__1_of_6_Snowdon_Ranger_Path_1110.html looks like a top day out!!!! enjoy your #enduroing 8)

Here’s a rad suggestion:

Head up in the evening after the daytime ban finishes, bivvy on or near the summit of Snowdon, then in the morning ride down. Take as much or as little bivvy kit as you feel comfortable with.

A group of us are planning to do up Llanberris – down Rhyd Dhu – up A4085 – up Rangers – then left onto Bridleway that goes back to Llanberris (http://www.theedgecycleworks.com/mtbroutes/snowdon-rhyd-ddu/)

Is this route less congested wrt walkers??

I would agree that starting to ride down any route at 5pm is a bit of a waste of time due to the amount of people on the mountain.
We did it last autumn and started pushing up from the gate at the end of the Tarmac road at 4.50 (slightly cheeky I know!). We met a lot of people walking down and it wasn’t school holiday period and was mid week. So riding down at 5pm would involve stopping a lot for walkers – bit pointless really.
My mate and I aren’t particularly fit so took us a while to get to the top PLUS we had a serious mechanical on Telegraph which took a long time to fix and we were still eating chips in Llanberis in the light at the end of the day.

The initial drop onto the south ridge is pretty techy – read unrideable – so you’ll not bother too many there. If you go all the way to Bwlch Cwm Llan, it’s much the same but then you can blast down to Rhyd Ddu – wide and not too techie. Most would break off at Llechog, like your map, in which case you’ll meet some walkers but it’s not as busy as the other side. It’s pretty techie though. The good bits are better than the good bits on the Ranger, but there are a lot of bad bits, there aren’t any really on the Ranger. Either way, work within the ban and it won’t be too bad.

10.00am to 5.00pm from 1st May – 30th September – Please do not cycle to or from the summit of Snowdon during this period.
From October to the end of April – Full access.

From the Snowdon National Park gov.uk site.

No cycling rather than no bicycles.

I’d agree with others here (as a local and regular Snowdon rider).

Pushing up is acceptable but at that time the descents will be too busy to be any fun. Llanberis track stays busier longer than the others especially went the late train is running.

There are bike counters, no myth.

There is a good campsite in Llanberis just near the Llanberis track start and the telegraph valley finish to the rangers. Pitch your tent, have a BBQ, head up for an evening ride, the later the better! I’ve had Llanberis path descents without passing a single walker and it makes a huge difference.

Hello Donk. I am an Admin for NWMBA, we have worked closely over the years with both walking groups, National Trust and others.

I can’t see a problem with what you propose to do. Done the Llanberis route up and rangers down loads of times. Look for a right close to the bottom of the rangers path which takes you along the Telegraph Path back to Llanberis.

Enjoy. 🙂

Bah!

Thanks phiiil – not sure why I’ve not thought about it before. Strangely enough I’ll actually ride some tight steep stuff like the top of Rangers more happily on a uni than a bike, though I’m not sure Telegraph Valley is likely to be as much fun.

Automatic ones counting pairs of wheels? That would confuse them then!

Automatic ones counting pairs of wheels?

manual the sensors 🙂
Or just hop them, undetectable ninja style

I think I’ve talked them into later start, with your comments to back me up.