Didnt read the angles before, but gonna have to agree with those two^^ Knock 1.5 degrees of the HT angle and you'll be onto a winner. IMO 😉

As a product launch this has spluttered badly.

And I still can't see the pictures.

^^^ I agree entirely with the head tube comments. with those angles the bike looks like it'd be twitch-tastic to the point of disaster on anything fast and steep. cockpit looks a bit short wrt the bottom bracket position as well. and I still fail to understand why anybody thinks having a hardtail with more than 120mm up front is a good idea, though understand that many of you feel differently.

if you want an alloy hardtail for that sort of money, you could get Frank the Welder to make you a custom Sinister Ridge (complete with sensible geometry) and probably have some change leftover. While I think the Foes DH and 4X bikes are outstanding, this one seems a bit redundant…

[makes mental note that when/if I start my bike business later in the year, do not slate other manufacturers, especially on a forum that other manufactuers inhabit]

It isn't designed to be the price of a Ragley. Hell i've seen a few in the flesh & wouldnt even go there, but its a totally different kettle of fish. Comparing a Ragley to a Foes is like comparing an Apollo to a Titus. Why do any of us buy expensive bikes when there is a cheaper option? We do it for the enjoyment factor.

Well thank you very much sir… your comments are most professional.

I was going to ask why on earth anyone would spec a 69deg head angle on a 150mm forked bike, but decided not to on grounds of respect for other manufacturers.

*hugs*

don't ragley make handbags, the ones with the little dogs on them?

Much as I hate the mmmbop's astetics with a passion, a 3.4lb, 160mm forked hardtail frame that we've not been seeing falling apart on the trails. Hats of to Brant, looks he's onto a winner IMO. Although I still cant quite see (im assuming, dealers and CRC/hotlines take a cut, but still…) why its twice the price of an on-one, and even beeting with an ugly stick (to form the tubes into a more pleasing shape) would be an asthetic improvement.

As for the enjoyment factor, splunking £500 extra for some bendy tubes (and is it just me that thinks the seatstay link looks like it will catch on legs/ankles?) over a fairly well proven (touch wood) design? Even the Yeti DJ frames are considderably cheeper and have similar levels of tube manipulation and niche market.

I'm sorry but a combination of Jamies attitude, gopping asthetics and questionable geometry, a price you could buy a full susser for, I'm out.

The FXR was reviewed in MBR 2-3 issues ago matey!! Its now on its way to Dirt for a more aggressive review

Oh right Jamie.. I had no idea.. I shall look out for it then!

btw, would you ever sell a 2010 model without a shock (i.e. would the curnutt from my 2007 FXR fit?)?

Also, have any of the 2009's left at the sale prices?!

ta

yeah good move that esp when the ragley is fantastic 🙂 im sure brant could put the price up if that made you feel any better

Have to say I'm completey unimpressed by the frame there are better and cheaper frames out there if this had a carrera badge whacked on it with the same specs and angles no one would even take a second look.
When you have manufacturers (more accurately designers) like Ragley, kinesis, dmr and cotic producing much more applicable bikes frames for less than half the cost of the Foes it begs the question why would anyone buy one?

RRR – save your questions; I think Jamies slunk off to rethink his launch strategy and re-pigeon hole the new frame.

The Foes looks nice enough from an aesthetic POV but I can't see any functional benefit to it – would be interesting to see them try to justify that rather than just admit that it's done to look nice and make it a bit 'special'…

All he had to do was post a picture, state angles and price TBC and I gaurentee STW would be fawning over it (do/did evil even post pics on here to get the momentum going for their doc frames?).

Stateing a hypothetical price, questionable product, slagging off the competition?

Octoporn anyone?

Ragley, kinesis, dmr and cotic producing much more applicable bikes frames for less than half the cost of the Foes it begs the question why would anyone buy one?

It doesn't really "beg the question" at all. There's room in the MTB market for all sorts of frames at both ends of the price spectrum, that forfil all sorts of needs for users…Foes have been going for years and years now, and it has to be said, have produced (and continue to do so) some ground breaking designs that have predated mainstream bikes by years in some cases, clearly they're doing something right.

Would I post pictures of a half made frame rather than the more usual lustrously finished article? probably not, but you can't blame the guy for getting excited.

Clubber, nothing wrong with buying a frame "because it looks nice". When choosing a do-it-all hardtail frame last year, if I'm honest, looks played probably a greater part in the process than I'd have been willing to admit at the time.

I agree actually Nick so long as people are honest enough to admit it and don't try and justify it with the usual BS about functional benefits.

and it has to be said, have produced (and continue to do so) some ground breaking designs

I'm not a foes hater (I'm looking at a s/h 2004 fly as we speak), but like orange, they picked a design (heavily formed frames, link driven shock, single pivot arround the 1:30 position on the chainring) and stuck with it.

The shocks are reputedly very good (never riden one myself) but SPV (now abbandoned?)/CVT (progressive bowed out of the MTB market after everyone realised they could re-build the shocks with shims rather than the damper they were paying the patent fees for) shocks always played second fiddle to fox with its (broadly) shim based dampers.

thisisnotaspoon – Member
mmmbop's…3.4lb

3.4lb? Dream on!

My thoughts are basically that if a bike performs the same or better for 1/3 of the price it's a uniformly better bike.

I stand corrected, 3.7lb

yeah thisisnotaspoon thats a whole 136g difference 😯 i wish i knew how to shake my head lol

mafiafish, people buy bikes for all sorts of reasons, performance to cost is just one.

Your definition of good value may be different to some-one elses.

Indeed, thus reducing it to the universal measures that are the two main factors for 90% of people when deciding upon a bike is surely the best way. Few people can justify the foes given its apparent shortcommings in the geometry stakes couples with its price. People can waflfe on about Foes' heritage and the workmanship blah blah blah and obviously its looks will appeal to some but what matters is it's over priced and in its current guise a bit of an odd frame. If you want to buy a bike to be different or to flash your cash or because you appreciate it's looks then you are no longer buying a mountain bike you are buying a status symbol, or peice of 'art' (expensive tubes)

If you want to buy a bike to be different or to flash your cash or because you appreciate it's looks then you are no longer buying a mountain bike you are buying a status symbol, or peice of 'art' (expensive tubes)

I understand what you mean, I sort of disagree, as long as it a MTB and you use it and enjoy it, how much you spend and for whatever reasons is largely irrelevant, I've a Chameleon, in the LT hard tail stakes it's at the top end of that market, but I still throw it about, and it's covered in scratches, but without doubt I could have just as much fun on a cheaper frame. But if people want to buy a frame just to stare at (and people do, don't they?) then that's cool too. And the paint finish on Foes is something to behold… 😀

TBH, the self-promotion, bashing of another framebuilder and fail on posting the pictures would make me doubtful about buying one (assuming I had the cash to burn AND liked it). Si from Progressive pimps the hell out of his stuff, but at least he's polite and involved in the STW community (you can post me my free Chumba now).

69 deg head angle? Are they having a larf?

Oh yeh, I'd never buy a bike from someone who doesn't know how to post pics on a forum! F*cking hell…

jamie@balfa – Member

Comparing a Ragley to a Foes is like comparing an Apollo to a Titus.

saying stuff like that makes you sound like a real superstar. 😆

I had a Foes once , it was a lovely frame. However. rear end cracked twice, front end cracked once and the bearings lasted 20 seconds and the cable guides were a joke. It cost £1400 and got chucked in the skip at the local tip due to the then distributer not wanting to know whatso-ever.

Im hoping the newer frames are better tested and the distributer does care about its customers.

scruff – Member

I had a Foes once , it was a lovely frame. However. rear end cracked twice, front end cracked once and the bearings lasted 20 seconds and the cable guides were a joke. It cost £1400 and got chucked in the skip at the local tip due to the then distributer not wanting to know whatso-ever.

how long had you had it? i'd have thought you'd have had a sale of goods act claim against the seller?

Remember that this is a Prototype guys so the angles will change. We are just trying a few different things out.

Ragley's have great angles, Taiwanese steel just isn't my bag. The comparison was a visual thing & not a quality thing.

Even manufacturers have the right to an opinion on other peoples products.

The fact that someone wont buy a frame because i am unsure how to post pics is a ridiculous comment. I'm not great on a computer & i'm the first to admit that.

J

don't ragley make handbags, the ones with the little dogs on them?

Comment of the day, week, year.

Is that backpedalling I can hear 😆

Surely steel is steel is steel unless you're doing crazy shizzle way above what the bike's designed for or aim to use it for many many years.
Comming back to that awful point, isn't the blue pig the lightest steel hardtail frame to pass that CEN strength test? So surely it's quality is not in question?

the blue pig 'aint light, 5.6lb ish?

Particularly noisy back pedaling, im thinking proII? Or maybe superstar freehub? Naaa, sounds expensive and ammerican, must be WI or King.

3,7lbs is for the aluminium mmmbop.

3.4 is the ti one

4.something is the blue pig

Taiwanese steel just isn't my bag.

Is it steel you don't like or the Taiwanese?
'cos if it's the steel, they do Ti and Al too.

and if its the taiwanese?

Well considering my last 'handmade in the USA' aluminium bike lasted all of 15 minutes, give me Taiwan steel any day.

slowrider – Member
3,7lbs is for the aluminium mmmbop.

I take it you've read that somewhere? Try picking one up, I have.

"isn't the blue pig the lightest steel hardtail frame to pass that CEN strength test"

ok a diversion… it's not the lightest to pass CEN 'period', Cotic soul and our Altitude pass CEN and are a fair bit lighter, but it maybe the lightest at its max compatible fork travel. the Alpitude passes at 150mm and is under 5.6lbs, not by much tho ) prob passes at 160 but not tried it yet.

the thing about CEN is you chose fork length to test with and the length of the lever makes a hell of a difference – so testing at 150mm isn't comparable with testing a 120mm. A CEN pass isn't just that, there's more to it.

but considering the "strength / lightness / low cost" maxim – to be fair the blue pig is as close as you'll get to a sensible balance of all 3.

"give me Taiwan steel any day." aye, they know what they're doing over there. that foes looks like it'll be lovely, the workmanship and forming ar quite something, but simple designs executed well still appeal most to me. like their single pivot 2-1 FS frames..

cynic-al, i reckon a claimed weight is just as likely to be accurate as a pick up and guess. thanks for pointing you usual 'i know best' snipe at me though, ive not had one before and i feel so much more like part of the gang now.