Am just about to click buy on a new Swift but whilst looking around at wheel options etc I came across some really good deals on complete and frame only El Mariachis.
I want a 29er for bikepacking, a bit of commuting and general riding – I plan to run it rigid with a decent size tyre on the back – @2.4 on a Flow Ex probably and a big rim/tyre combo on the front – a blunt, dually or maybe another Flow EX.
The Singular does it all but a complete Salsa will probably work out cheaper – even after I’ve swapped the fork – I’m pretty sure I’d be happy withn both and I suppose my head is saaying Salsa and the heart is saying Swift
Any opinions?

Alternator dropouts over EBB. So Salsa.

El-Mar.
Swift is nice & all that, but the El-Mar just looks classier, especially with the colour matched rigid fork.

I doubt you would be unhappy with either.

Karate Monkey, Solaris, Pace RC129, Niner SIR.9 worth a look…

It would be the El mariachi for me mainly because they make smaller frames. I currently run a rigid 26er with Rohloff and ebb. I think the ebb is great and looks really neat and I’ve never had an issue with it in 8 years but the Alternators are certainly more versatile and allow different hub widths as well as switching between gears single speed and a igh. I’ve never read any negative reports on performance either.

I keep looking at a 14″ frame up for £250 but It would cost at least the same again to get the Rohloff converted to disk brakes and then I’d need a new rear wheel build as well.

(I’m sponsored by Singular)

If you want it for bikepacking, I won The Highland Trail, The Cairngorms Loop, and finished 3rd in the Tour Divide on a Singular Swift.

I certainly wouldn’t see EBB as a negative – the EBB on the Swift doesn’t creak and is easy to adjust.

I haven’t ridden the Salsa, and you might not find that much to help you decide if it’s all on paper. So I would see about a test ride and find out which one feels right to you. If you’re in Devon and around 6ft, you’re welcome to have a go on my Swift.

If you’re going Dually front then I presume you will be looking to use a knard. In which case does the Salsa fork take a knard as the new swifts do.

I’ve got a swift and think it’s a great frame. Only thing that i’m not so keen on is the grub screw eccentric. Swinger or paragon drop outs look to be a much better option and failing that the Bushnell EBB on my Jones seems a better solution.

Oh and not sure on your budget but there was a Jones steel spaceframe up for sale last week which might be worth a look. Absolutely fantastic bikes.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/salsa-el-mariachi-or-singular-swift

No problems with the EBB on my Swift, great bike just felt right as soon as I sat on one. Actually rushed back from the test ride to put a deposit down. Haven’t regretted it

Thanks all – still undecided but leaning towards the Swiift – current frame and fork prices make the El Mar a bit more than the Swift and that could be the factor that helps make the final decision

watch the el mar geo as they’ve changed it this/last year. i was idly looking at them a few weeks ago ( as you do ) and all the deals i saw were previous gen.

Only ridden a swift, but it is a lovely ride combined with really efficient pedalling compared to anything else I’ve ridden…

If I had to have only one bike, it would be a swift, especially a new one with knard compatibility.

EBB is great, wouldn’t faff with anything else.

I concur with Lotto

Alternator dropouts over EBB. So Salsa.

I have had both and the EBB on my current Singular keeps slipping what ever I have tried to do to keep it tight.
Both bikes have superb paint jobs, but in my opinion, the Salsa looks classier.

Tastypixels -I’ve found that EBBs work best (ie don’t slip) in a couple of configurations. Looking from the drive side, arrange your gearing or chain length (by fitting a half link if necessary) so that your bb is either between 12 and 3 o’clock or between 6 and nine o’clock in the eccentric. If you stand on the pedals your weight then serves to tighten the chain; if you do the same with the EBB anywhere else, it loosens it.

I suspect you may have yours set up in a loosening configuration 🙂

I suppose my head is saaying Salsa and the heart is saying Swift

Always follow your heart

I’ve got two Singular Hummingbirds (so the same EBB as the Swift) and I’ve never had a hint of slipping – I’ve not payed any attention to where they’re set-up in their rotation either until now – I’ve just checked and at the minute they’re (coincidentally) both in the 7-8 o’clock position.
I have run them both with different gearing in the past though, so who knows?

Good EBB’s though, in my opinion. The worst was on a Carver 96er, which slipped and creaked and was a bugger to adjust too.

I’ve had both, the Salsa was by far a better frame in quality and ride. Both are pretty hefty but for what you are after I guess that not too important. Please bear in mind both if mine were several years ago so if the frames have changed a bunch, this may no longer apply.

The swinger dropouts were soooooooooo much better than the ebb. I have a niner now with an ebb and even that isn’t as good and they are supposed to be the better ones.

I have has a Swift for a few years now. I have never had an issue with the EBB creaking or slipping FWIW.

It took me a absolute age to get the bike set up right but once I did it became (and remains) my ‘go to’ bike. It was supposed to be a winter bike but it seems to be dragged out winter, spring, summer, autumn ad nauseum

I love mine but ultimately, you have to expect that it will not suit everyone.

I’ve got both!

I’d be happy with either, only bought the 2nd as I wanted a large over a medium (which means there’s a medium swift frame in the shed £250 collected from Wokingham or posted at cost).

The El Mariachi is stiffer, especialy the forks (or maybe the headtube?), the Swift feels more ‘steel’ all round. They both ride very similar, just subtley different, there’s very little to seperate them in my usage (~20mile rides, almost entirely on the Gorick XC courses so lots of tight, flowing, rooty, often muddy singletrack)

I’ve never had an issue with the EBB, but do make a point of setting it up/forewards. Never creaked or slackened.

Had one alternator dropout bolt’s thread spontaneously corrode, not sure what caused it, must have been a galvanic circuit formed somewhere. They’re more faff than an EBB (6 bolts, all different sizes and they need to be adjusted parralel). The EBB you could adjust in a muddy field blindfold, alternators need daylight and a workstand makes like easier.

Also the SS el mariachi can’t take gears (except 1×10 with a new droopout and a full outer), the swift takes either setup with really cleverly hidden cable guides.

Given a choice I’d probably get a Swift El Mariachi whichever you like the look of. I’d like to sawap back to a swift and try it but my new forks have a tapered steerer.

I’d bite your hand off for that frame if it was a large….. At a shade over 6ft think a large would be better….?

Yup, im 6ft and the large is more or less spot on with a 110mm stem.

hmmmm, shame, might have to get my name down for one of these new frames in that case, or hope a large appears in classifieds.

there’s a medium swift frame in the shed £250 collected from Wokingham

Must .. resist ..

I’d snap that up, but my 26″ is kind of EoL all over, non tapered QR forks, 3×9, skinny handlebars etc. so I’m saving for a complete (Whyte C29 fave at the mo) as I think I’d get better value. Would absolutely love a Swift though.

I’d snap that up, but my 26″ is kind of EoL all over, non tapered QR forks, 3×9, skinny handlebars etc. so I’m saving for a complete (Whyte C29 fave at the mo) as I think I’d get better value. Would absolutely love a Swift though.

I could include some Hope/DT wheels, tyres, thompson seatpost, Raceface Deus stem and bars, generic grips and saddle for £500. Swap your chainset and brakes over and gears or run it SS. Or the same with Salsa/Stans SS wheels for £400.

thisisnotaspoon – do you have any pics – I intend building mine up with gears but may be interested in your bike. What DT rims are on it?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7614571@N05/8648531294/ (and some more in the same place)

Rims are DT-X470, front hub is a Pro II, rear is a Pro II Evo as it was replaced by Hope about a year ago.

The Salsa wheels are Formula hubs with Stans Rapide (crest’s with eyelets).

Sorry – maybe a stupid question but are the Salsa wheels SS only or can you put a cassette on them?