As above i've got the choice of two similar frames.

Which is the best system to use.

Opinions both + and – appreciated.

Thanks Iain

Track Ends.

You did ask for opinion.

;0)

I prefer slidey drop outs and chain tug, but I ride in absoulte filth over the winter so easy cleaning/simplicity for me. I've used ebb's and they can creak which makes me get quite OCD unless you give them extra care and attention and I'm basically a lazy b**tard when it comes to ss maintenace. Having said that, you can get some very lovely ebb's that have a nylon sleeve so they dont't creak n squeak.

so in summary I quite like both, i'm a lazy f*cker and squeaky creaky bits drive me bonkers.

A good EBB is the best option, a crap one is the worst option 🙂 The benefit is dead simple wheel removal and replacement.

Good EBBs I have had are on my Singular which use a Phil Wood EBB, and my Avanti KISS 29er which uses a no-name brand. What they have in common is a proper round BB shell with enough meat on them to not deform when the EBB is tightened.

Track ends are dead dead simple, but if you have disk brakes then you are going to have to check the brake alignment any time you take out your back wheel – a real PITA if you get a puncture on a wet day. I'd suggest using bolt on wheels for these, although I have used a QR with tugnuts successfully. A disk calliper mount above the axle increases the chance of axle creep in use.

Sliders, those on my Nicolai were rock solid.
I had an EBB on my Carver and that was trouble from day one and failed totally during a solo. My mates EBB on his 1FG failed most horrid on the trail, so no more EBBs for me.

There's also a lot of confusion in names. For example the ones on current O-O frames are not sliding dropouts – there is nothing to slide. Sliding dropouts are like the paragon ones, or cheaper version on konas etc.

I've used sliding dropouts (on a Voodoo) and had no problems. I have used the slot dropout (which is basically a track end with a different brake setup) for over a year. With a single chaintug it has been faultless.

I have no expereince of EBB's

My GT Peace has an EBB. It's seen plenty of use and I've not had any problems with it. Although, I've had to grease it up for the first time in 3 years because it started to creak.

My sliding drop-out Kona was also not a problem.

I'm sure there are plenty of Dialled Love-Hates out there and I've not seen or heard of any failures there either.

A case of just taking your pick.

track ends not keen on EBB as above very creaky(the one I have ridden) and they look odd, but must admit I,m tempted by a Singular Hummingbird!

My preference is the Phil Wood EBB, which is why I spec it on the Love/Hate frames.

I had a EBB on an old inbred bloody brilliant, now I have a Cotic Simple and track ends are a pain in the arse

Not all EBBs creak – just the crap one or badly setup ones.

i have a sanderson solo and the bb on that is spot on no problems as of yet i really beat it in the wet/mud today and no creaking loosening ect as for track ends a pain when u get a flat sliding dropouts ov herd problems with the bolt sheering under brake jack(early p7'ss were prown to it)

As with Mike, I prefer ebb's, Phil Wood as well. They are not cheap but they are worth it.

My experience of both EBBs and sliding dropouts pretty much sums up the above: Whichever you get, if it's a crap example of the breed or you can't set it up it'll suck, and if it's a perfectly decent example it'll be absolutely fine.

I've got one of Sam's Singulars with a Phil EBB and it's been fine. Haven't tried sliding dropouts though so a bit of a one-sided opinion!

http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=yt6dto&outx=800&quality=70

Slidy with disc mount. What's the issue with taking the wheel out? There is none.

A good EBB is the best option, a crap one is the worst option

will second that. been using a phil EBB for about 4 years and never had any problems with it, just give it a clean/grease every time i change the BB cups. it has 2 bolts and essentially 1 moving part so not a lot to go wrong.
the thread about the cotic simple (an oxymoron sureley?) dropouts/chaintugs that was posted yesterday is one of the reasons i would never bother with any other system for SS.

I've used slotted dropouts with chaintugs (original Inbred – used for 4 or 5 years) and now a Dialled Love/Hate with Phil Wood EBB (for the last 3 years). The EBB wins hands down. Our local gritty mud (peak district) wears chains quite quickly and I regularly have to tension my chain, with the EBB it is a 5 minute job and no messing with caliper alignment. The EBB has never squeaked and I only strip it and grease it when the BB wears out.

I had a EBB on an old inbred bloody brilliant, now I have a Cotic Simple and track ends are a pain in the arse

That's what I've had but I'm the opposite ;0)

EBB worked fine but when it needed adjustment it was a PITA. Especially on the trail.

i found adjusting the EBB on my singular easy, done it a lot whilst out riding, just to find the sweet spot when i was setting it up, no creaks either

I have paragon sliding dropouts on two bikes and they are fine.

pic here

That's an interesting looking frame Bob – can you put up a full pic. Sadly, I think I recognise it from a frame builders website some time ago!?

Pete

I've had sliding on-one dropouts (not slot!) and ebb. Both worked fine but I prefer the oo sliding as it's easy to adjust, nice and neat ( and never slips ). I wouldn't trust expanding wedge bbs myself having seen endless issues with them out on the trails though no doubt some do work

I like track dropouts the most. They are simple, and simple is good in mechanical things I think.

Have both, prefer the EBBs, need more time come majors, but so much less hassle/time every where else, Like the look of the Phil Woods but the engineer in me prefers the Bushnells, latest one really is very good. One day I will save up and have an Indy Fab SS EBB made with Simple -ish geom!

Bob's website with lots of photos and info Hope you don't mind me posting this Bob!

I have used / sold both the Phil Wood and Paragon sliders as well as quite a few trackend / canti / slotted disc mounts.

As has been said, done well they all work fine. The EBB in my BlackBuck frame is a super close fit and has 2 pinch bolts and has never slipped, creaked or played up.

SSP

i like slidey dropouts, a la on-one/paragon/kona. easy to adjust. wheel in and out without issues, and everything on show ( to me this means 'accessible', to others i know 'ugly'. take your pick! ). had a mate with major ebb woes on a chameleon, but fixed after the ebb was replaced.
shame on-one don't do slideys no more.

Thanks 'sss', I do remember that Solitude, although it wasn't the frame I was initially thinking of. Looks real nice and just my size too…what a coincedence!

P

The EBB on there tandem just works ( taper wedge type).

Sliding dropouts introduce a weakness into the frame and / or extra weight and have possible alignment issues, track ends / slot dropouts as on my genesis are a pain and as you adjust the wheel position you have to move the caliper as well – and potentially the wheel can me misaligned.

Given the choice I would have a taper wedge EBB every time One moving part and I cannot see why you would adjust it trailside

KISS.

I have track ends on my commuter IMHO they work better with V brakes, or where you don't have to adjust for disks.
+ Super-easy to set up with chain tugs
+ no movement with V's IME(some people have had problems with some manufacturers frames moving with disks)
+ Also easy to adjust for chain wear/different sized rings.
– However, getting the wheel out involves a 10mm spanner and about 10mins

Not the best pic, but my Voodoo sliders

+ The main reason – easy wheel removal
+ easy to adjust to take up chain tension/adjust for different rings (another reason for choosing these)
+ No problems with disk use (no adjustment needed)
– does not look as neat as EBB IMO
– Possibly not the most "solid" feeling – you have to tighten the bolts pretty tight

{EDIT} Never had a problem with either system aligning the wheel. Having siad that if I were to get another SS (considering a 29er) and knew I wasn't going to be swapping to different sized rings regularly I would prob go EBB. Niner EBB anyone??

I've got the Paragon sliders on my Solitude and think they are really very good, but if I was doing it again now I'd be seriously looking at the Phil Wood EBB as I don't think it was about at the time.

The thing is, they are both very good systems, and you'll be fine with whichever you choose.

In my opinion the best dropouts I have seen for s/s use are on "dibbs" Whyte 19 and I would be more than happy with a Ti19

But alas I will keep the Simple for a good few years yet 😀

Would the Paragon one's move, after a small jump do you think?