Just wondering about this really.

Ive been offered a nice orange 5 in a swap for my stumpy but not sure about the oldish suspension design.

Years ago I had a really old marin single pivot full susser to demo and the thing was horrendous to ride, bobbbed like a bitch, blew through its travel etc.

Suspension design has come on loads with the likes of dw link and fsr etc yet orange still sell loads of the 5 with the single pivot design.

Are they reliant on shocks with lots of propedal or do they still bounce around??

cheers

Steve

Oh dear God, no!

Do you realise what you’re just about to start?

*runs for cover*

LOL@ binners…

it is a serious question !!

I’d love to offer an opinion, but I’ve never actually owned a single pivot.

Actually…. when did that ever stop anyone 😉

Do they bob more than a linkage bike Yes – I went from VPP to an orange
Do they rely on shocks – YES

Do they bob like bikes of old – NO due to better shocks

Will you notice – probably

Will you care – possibly

IME a nice seated smooth pedalling technique is required rather than standing up and powering uphill – dont ride one like it is a rigid SS basically.

FWIW I think linkage climbs better but single pivots descend better.

FWIW I think linkage climbs better but single pivots descend better.

ahh but what about brake jack
😉

ahh but what about brake jack

Is that the new German brake? I thought they used germanic names like Julie, Marta, or Gustav……

FWIW I think linkage climbs better but single pivots descend better.

Depends, SP can dig in whilst climbing for a bit more traction. Linkage would be more active whilst climbing.

Any bike will bob if you ride it like a pogo stick

nixie – Member
Depends, SP can dig in whilst climbing for a bit more traction. Linkage would be more active whilst climbing.

Depends where the pivot is placed.

Also depends what the linkage is designed to do. I quite like that with a bit of body language you can make an orange wheelie out, my Pitch just seems to be almost too stable and a comparable effort barely lifts the front wheel.

but what about brake jack

Shudders at that thread

I have yet to experience this as i just use the large rocks to slow me down 😉

SP can dig in whilst climbing for a bit more traction. Linkage would be more active whilst climbing.

Aye it all depends on many things and it was just a general statement/soundbite as i wanted to avoid all this 😉

body language ??

it’s got lock out on the 2013 model I’ve got so bobs a lot less than my pitch. forget to switch from climb to trail afterwards though and the back bounces round worse than a hard tail. on trail I’d say it climbs the same as the pitch but noticeably lighter on the front end.

Just go for the swap, you wont regret it, best bike ever made (here we go)i live in the lake district so get to ride all sorts of terrain and the orange 5 dose it better than any other.

I’ve had a number of single pivots since my first Heckler back in 98. Modern shocks with platforms virtually eliminate bob unless you’re out of the saddle in which case they still bob – alot.
I’ve changed to a VPP in the last couple of months and it hardly bobs at all even with PP off. I’d say I get the same amount of bob with PP off as I did on my Heckler with PP on. The VPP is probably more capable but the SP was more fun to ride for sure.

Do they bob? – Yes, if you don’t sit and spin smoothly.

I don’t play around with platform on the shock and my fork has no lockout either. You just adapt accordingly.

As some have already said with a well serviced and properly operating rear shock such as the RP23 with Pro Pedal, bobbing is almost negated when climbing. Just remember to flick the switch and enjoy the descents 😀

If it’s a Five:

Standing up and mashing uphill, yes it’ll bob.
Stabbing away in the granny ring (that sounds wrong), yes it’ll bob.
Otherwise, no, they pedal really well actually. Modern shock and good pivot placement means the chain growth effect keeps them nicely taut under power and really active when freewheeling.

Generally middle/big-ring spinning, they’re great. They’re also very good pedalling stood-up on the flat and downhill, again, you just need the cadence and power consistency to work with the chain growth. Very intuitive and effective though.

Stand up on a long climb and you will be begging for the pro-pedal lever.

I’d love to offer an opinion, but I’ve never actually owned a single pivot.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

You owned one of single pivots that was famed for the least amount of bob when it came out due to its design, obviously so good that you didn’t notice…

although it did have a platform shock as as you had the long travel version.

Alpine 160 rider. Have previously had URT, 4-bar Horst, Fauz bar, VPP Mk1 and I-Drive. None of them are perfect, but the Alpine is the best bike Ive owned. Most noticeable bobbing is on rolling terrain where it ‘trap-doors’ but a bit of low speed compression (CCDB) sorted that out.

My ‘old’ suspension frame (Patriot LT 2000) copes just fine with ‘modern’ trails.

It does bob about a bit, but that’s the nature of the ride…

Never noticed my heckler bob at all. I dont use rely on propedal either, but also very rarely get out of saddle uphill.
Oh and I do use propedal, but all the time descending is what I use it for, slows my comp damping down (as advised by chris porter)-never used to touch pp at all

I guess it depends how you ride and how sensitive you are to such things. I ride a Maestro equipped Trance and an SP Five. I tend to spin up climbs in the granny ring (pretty much never stand) and hardly ever bother to turn on the propedal. Funny enough I tend to notice the bobing a bit more often on the Trance, but it’s pretty rare on either bike and when it happens I just reach down and flick the propedal on. I do notice the Orange digging in a bit on really steep stuff, which feels good, but I’m not sure it really makes any difference to whether I get up the hill or not.

Mind you, I’m a hopeless mincer who rides his brakes far too much and I still couldn’t tell you what brake jack is. So I guess I’m just not the most sensitive soul when it comes to these things.

You’re right Saccades. I never really thought of the Merida as a single pivot, with its multiple linkages, its nowt like a 5.

It climbed like a hardtail with that MPV back shock though. No bob at all!! Fantastic frame!

Commencal metas are also essentially a single pivot and they don’t bob much, even without a platform shock.

A while since this was done ….

It’s mostly about pivot height.

Oh and I do use propedal, but all the time descending is what I use it for, slows my comp damping down (as advised by chris porter)-never used to touch pp at all

This is a good tip – and one of the reasons Yeti advise riding with setting 1 on propedal for an ASR5. A lot of people dont seem to realise propedal is just low speed compression, so having “some” set will help prevent wallow in rollers and other situations – its not just for firming up the shock uphill. Tis why the lever is blue on a Fox shox – to match the lsc on dial on the fork.

Supposing one was looking at a second hand Orange 5…

What model year would make a good buy ?
I gather they have changed a bit in terms of head angle, dropper post compatible seat post diameters etc.
What was the seat post dia when they kinked the top tube ?
(2006/2007…)

27.2

2007 was fist kinked head tube.

Can’t remember whether the tapered head tube was ’10 or ’11. I might be wrong but I think the bigger seat tube was not until 2012…

30.9 seat tube on my 2011,
They were 27.2 prior to that.

I never notice my Flux bob, in or out of the saddle and with propedal off.

Same rules apply as when getting any new bike. Go ride it and see for yourself, it’s the only way to really know.

heh – I had the shorter travel version without a platform shock (carrera bugaboo) and it had very little bob. It’s still a single pivot like the 5.

Thinking about it, just recovered some photos from fotopic and there is one of the carrera looking very green that I must rehost for giggles.

I had a blur classic (sold to get the merida) with a RP23 and the only time I really noticed the VPP kicking in was when hooning it up a climb and the whole thing went “tight”.

Why would you “stand up and mash” regularly on any full sus trail bike?
Never ridden a single pivot and never stood up and mashed either FWIW.

I often mash gears too much or ride SS and the most movement / bob prone sus bikes ime were Spesh and Turner 4-bars – very neutral in terms of almost no chain growth / anti squat and perhaps that was why they felt more isolated and prone to weight induced movement to me. Good going downhill, but in general I prefer a SP bike that has some feedback and chain growth, just not too much, there’s a range that works and the 5 has as much as you’d really want.
There’s nothing ‘bobby’ about a 5 that would put me off one, I like them.

Garylake – “fist kinked”, “Stabbing away in the granny ring” .. get a grip man )

Strangely, I only really noticed bob when I rode my rigid bike for the first time in months, and it actually felt like it was bobbing. I’d obviously been compensating subconciously with my riding style, but now i’m regularly using both I don’t seem to notice at all.

Linkage design is all about compromise in various aspects, there is no “best” system, just whatever balance of compromises the designer has made.

The aspects you’re juggling –

.Suspension action – bump absorption/feel
.Anti-squat
.Pedal feedback
.Brake jack

Single pivot –

.Suspension action – linear

The more anti squat you build in, the more pedal feedback and brake jack you get. You design a single pivot in a manner that it pedals better than any other bike on the market, but you’ll have massive amounts of brake jack and pedal feedback.

Faux bar/linkage actuated single pivot –

Just like single pivot, but you can alter the suspension action/feel which in turn can reduce pedal feedback since the bike can be designed not to sit so far into the travel.

FSR/Horst link/DW link/vpp/switch/maestro/split pivotjust about anything else –

They’re all the same.

You can build in more anti squat without as big of a compromise on pedal feedback and brake jack as single pivot bikes.

Each aspect is a little more independently adjustable with a little less compromise.

So as an example, a FSR bike can pedal equally as well as a single pivot but with less brake jack and pedal feedback. You can get closer to having you cake and eating it.

So as someone said previously, it’s all about pivot location, not linkage layout.

Why would you “stand up and mash” regularly on any full sus trail bike?

One major reason, fun, a bike is a play thing.

Myself, all the time. Climbing, i get bored, rather than sit and spin, i stomp up, often finding little step-ups and things along the way. On flatter terrain, where you if you go faster than cruising, making up gaps and practising manuals is far more fun than sitting and twiddling. Going down is pretty obvious too, get speed up again at a turn exit, an extra crank to make sure you clear that gap.

I try and turn a whole MTB ride into a BMX track, since BMX is what i’ve done all my life.

just get the new one like I did. dropper fits and you got lock out so no Bob even if you stand up