I’m more concerned after seeing those graphs that my spitfire is shit!

Hob Nob, can you elaborate any more on your experience, in what way was it poor on the downs, I’m not questioning your knowledge I’m genuinely interested as I’m going to be replacing an Alu Nomad shortly and was thinking about this bike specifically as it’s basically an old Nomad, the new ones too slack for me etc.

I’ll be riding Whistler, Colorado, Alps on it so it’s pretty important that it comes down well. My nomad has to be the best bike I’ve ridden it’s just so good on the downward stuff and also surprisingly effective on the ups. Dependant on my legs and lungs of course.

Looking at the graph, it does sort of make sense from that, both of our opinion was we thought maybe the shock was left in climb mode! or the air pressure was way too high! but we checked everything. It rode like a really short travel steep angled bike, which you were all over the front of.

The build kit, whilst blingy as hell (full XTR, Enve’s etc) was odd, 80mm stem and 711 Havens feels really strange when you are used to 50mm stems and wide bars, so I don’t think that helped, as is dragged you further over the front.

I’d read a fair amount of grumblings about the down performance of the frame, mostly seemingly aimed at the shock, and a retune, or binning it completely seems to improve things, but that’s not a cheap fix.

Suspension. Rising rate to sag point, falling from there on. I have no idea how people deal with it? Unless they’re used to 150mm bikes feeling like 100mm.

This is incorrect. As Maxtorque has pointed out, you’re confusing leverage ratio with spring rate. It is actually a falling rate to sag point, then rising.

To explain: When you speak of a “rising” or “falling” rate, in suspension design this refers to the spring rate & not the leverage ratio.

Falling rate suspension is one that gets easier to compress as it moves through its travel – sometimes called the trap door effect. This can be exaggerated by incorrect shock spec’ such as a large volume air shock or coil shock.

Rising rate suspension is one that becomes harder to compress as it moves through its travel.

So, because the leverage ratio on both the Burner and Spitfire go from 3.3 & 3.05 to 2.5 & 2.15 respectively this means it gets harder to compress their springs – this is sometimes called ramping up. When coupled with an air shock which, as pointed out gets harder to compress the further it is compressed, you get a bike that ramps up a lot throughout its travel. This is often a good thing as it sometimes gives that “bottomless” feel (depending on other things such as just how much volume the shock has and it’s ending
Leverage ratio).

I’ve never ridden any I these bikes – I’m just looking at that graph; It’s sometimes the case that a manufacturer will present these types of graph as evidence of ride characteristics. For example, the falling rate up to sag point could be presented as “excellent small bump compliance”. But it could just as easily be ignored because if it’s before the point of sag its irrelevant (we don’t use that much of the travel ‘before’ sag do we?).

Bit because it’s now 4am & I’m really tired I’ll finish by saying that what you’re actually (possibly) saying is that you prefer certain characteristics over others – & that is absolutely fine, but I wouldn’t try and demonstrate a personal opinion/preference with a graph…

To the OP – go & ride one & see for yourself. I hated every Specialized and Turner 4 bar I tried, even though all the magazines raved about them. It wasn’t until I rode a Titus Super Moto that I realised that not all 4-bars weren’t the same. It’s the same with VPP/DW link bikes – they all feel different. It all boils down to how it feels to you & not some bloke on a website or in a mag’.

Riding bikes is the only way to tell, if you keep looking at graphs and get charts you probably also like to keep your bikes polished in the garage rather than ride them. The fatally flawed vpp design makes the back of my blur ltc feel locked to the floor and grippy as he’ll. I had to relearn how to ride it as it was so different to riding my old single pivot bikes and different to the fsr enduro I had. It took 2 full days on the shuttle at rotorua to crack the changes in riding style. Once that was done it’s the gift that keeps on giving. I’ll be taking it back over to roto for the ews round next year if I can get in.

could never ride a bike named after this chap

VPP2 explained…

I’ve personally found it very pedal friendly, glues to the trail and plush.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFBrA-BUEQk[/video]

I’m more concerned after seeing those graphs that my spitfire is shit!

I think most people here are misreading that graph. A falling leverage ratio means that the suspension stiffness is increasing as you go through the travel – which is why Spitfires should be used with coil or large volume air shocks, and is also why they feel much longer than 140mm travel.

Regarding this graph below, I don’t know if it’s right but what I do know is that a rider will not perceive the Y vs X number on the graph, they will perceive the gradient of the curve and even more so the rate of change of the gradient (dy^2/dx).

That’ll probably kill this thread…

It was said a bit tongue in cheek and if I’m honest! I really should understand graphs like that but my brain won’t let me outside of work.

I think most people here are misreading that graph. A falling leverage ratio means that the suspension stiffness is increasing as you go through the travel

Yeah I lost the will to reply after rising/falling rates were confused.

just go and demo one

Computer says NO !

All of my mates seems to love their SCs…..

[/url] image by julmulvan, on Flickr[/img]

Well if I must, I will!

[img]https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10155218_10154111821790010_2325484967691647643_n.jpg[/img]

Tested one on Saturday. Decent spec including ENVE wheels. Found it a bit dull, and didn’t do anything better than my Spesh Stumpy Evo 29er, and did a few things worse. On the other hand, the Solo we also had out on demo was an absolute riot and am seriously tempted by one.

GolfChick are those custom SC decals? Where did you get them from please?

It’s pretty fair to say that you either love em or hate em, there’s probably as many lovers as haters and if we all liked the same things then we would be in a quandary,

It’s just as well otherwise we would all be running about on the same bikes, with the same helmets and kit on.

Now that would be sad

Stevelol they’re custom decals designed and sent to me by a company called vidiomgraphics in Canada, they wenre’t too expensive worked out about £60 posted to me. The guy there rides bronson so had no problem measuring the existing decals. he’s done quite a few now for users on mtbr and the ‘show us your bronson’ thread has quite a few other options as well as him doing anything custom.

tavishcapewellATmac.com thats the guys email address who i dealt with and who is actually originally from nearby to me in Kidderminster.

Are the wheel Decals from Slik Graphics ?

The Bronson looks sweet as, the Black & Pink looks great

yep wheel decals on the bottom picture are from slik graphics. Gone and sold now tho as I’m running derby rims which only come with small triangles on them to mark the valve position really and part of his ‘logo’. Love the look of enve decals but I’m not paying enve prices when I can pay derby prices and get something wider. Thanks!

I have those rims now 😀 Unfortunately they’re going stealth once my Solo arrives 😀

I’ve had a sniff at DERBY Rims, they look pretty robust.

What Spokes did you use to build them up ?

The derby rims are senstaional I have to say, they have a steam roller effect. They barely alter tyre clearance because theres no sidewall flex at all but they really do offer awesome levels of grip and go wher eyou point them. Looking forward to putting magci mary on so I can make tractor sound effects! My local shop built them up with aci f1 spokes, we considered sapim cx rays but after his advice there just werent enouch benefits to justify the costs. So far no problems at all but Ill take them up for retensioning soon purely cause tending to get through kit lately having returned a chris king under warranty because of a broken flange.

Great looking bike and the handling uphill is fantastic. Can anyone confirm the head angle I thought it was 68 degrees but this review says 67?
Santa Cruz Bronson C Review

So is it the consensus of this forum that you shouldn’t use a CCDB Coil on a VPP bike?

Nice bike GolfChick btw

Yeah I like mine. It’s a good bit livelier than I expected after a few internet opinions I read. Works -1 headset and 160mm Pike has slackened it to about 65.5 degrees. Shock could do with a tune to get the most out of it but I’m not complaining too much.

Mike the leverage ratio for the older Nomads were suited to an air shocks ramp up, PUSH used to do a new linkage specifically for Bronsons with coil shock.

To summarize- youm boughted wrong uns!