and if they dont like it go to the private sector,with less perks and less pension rights.

Max £140,000 pounds pa, same a s a primeminister.

Erm…no, cos if we don't like it we'll go on strike and you'll be screwed

Max £140,000 pounds pa, same a s a primeminister.

That's just basic pay, taken as a whole, the package is over a million with pension and stuff

I'd like to sign for any job in the public sector that pays 140 000 per annum…

Oh, and it's fewer perks and fewer pension rights…

Private sector – LOL!

Public sector perks are not all brilliant. If you limit public sector pay all the decent workers will leave/never come.

Since when did public sector workers cause the problems we've got now? I've spent 15+ years working my way up the teaching scale and I'm now on leadership spine, but get <1/3 of the sum you've mentioned. I'm happy with pay and conditions, and do an essential job that I'm regularly told others couldn't stand.
What workers are you thinking of? Nurses? refuse collection?

Yes, because you wouldn't want to pay that public servant much because what they do isn't in anyway important at all.

Good luck with your private hospital, your private prison system, your private police force, your private army, your private school system, your private council, etc… 🙄

How about, should private sector pay be limited to a set amount and if they don't like it go to another country with less perks and living standards. Does that float your boat?

Well public sector in France:
Most of them are only paid for 10 month (but it's evenly divided in 12 payment) as school is only 10 month.
All of them are underpaid if you compare wedge with private sector.
They have ZERO advantages. Private sector get free health insurance, food help, reduced fair for plenty of stuff through the companies and they have 1% of their mortgage paid.

I suspect is very similar in the UK. So what was the question again?

I don't why you are bothered project – you have already predicted on here that there will be no public sector in a couple of years time.

Because as you keep reminding us – it isn't necessary.

Although God only knows who you would direct your venom at if that were ever to happen …….. your life would become meaningless – would it not project ?

what RichPenny says. Just back from Canada where freinds have just about completed their qualifying period for residency. By the sounds of things they did not do all their homework before moving. Stuff like local taxation, alchohol taxation, sales taxation,recycling taxation all on top of normal income tax etc. Seems there is a complicated rebate system but you need an accountant to do the work(more money)
Add to that wind chill factors of -50 during the winter which lasts around 6mths
+ side is petrol is only 98cents a litre

btw, my wife is a civil servant, deputy manager of a national organisation and is on less tha £25k. This yrs pay rise of about 1.5% has been passed but frozen for the forseeable future

I am all up for it ! I'm not going to make another 25 years as a paramedic anyhow! Pensions what the heck are they ??? None of my recent colleagues who have been 'fortunate' enough to still be sorting YOUR problems out at the age of 65 when they retire have lived more than a few years!!

Jeez why not make me pay to refuel the ambulances as well whilst you are at it!

Probation worker here on slightly over one fifth of the sum you mention. I think that's about right for now to be honest. Some colleagues are worth considerably more, others considerably less.

If someone was to cut our 5 'Assistant Chief Officers' each of whom are on about £60,000 then none of us would weep. Four years ago we managed fine with 2 FFS!

Pay at the top of the public sector has gone mental, these people are so detached from reality and have absolutely no idea what life is like in the real world. Further down the pay spines some of my colleagues have been taking the piss for years.

Going off with stress at the drop of a hat for up to a year at a time before returning for a few months then doing it all again. Others view sick days as some sort of extension to their holiday pay…as an organisation we average 13 days sick per employee now. Funnily enough rates rocket during May-Sept and usually on Fridays and Mondays. The people who are 'sick' are invariably the very same who are useless when they actually bother to turn up. Coincidence I'm sure!

This yrs pay rise of about 1.5% has been passed but frozen for the forseeable future

Your wife should have become a Tory councillor in Croydon Trekster. Here the Tory councillors have awarded themselves pay rises of up to 34%, whilst pledging to slash services and force pay freezes and redundancies on council workers.

Presumably all to David Cameron's rallying cry "we're all in it together"

Conservative councillors voted through an inflation busting pay increase for their senior members tonight

.

And the greedy money-grabbing Croydon Tory councillors have already decided to stop funding to 41 out of the 47 charities which are at the moment receiving funding.

Dozens of local charities and volunteer organisations will be left devastated by the loss of £1.2million.

This is what you get when you vote Conservative.

What a stupid bl@@dy question.
Do you have any idea how many public servants are paid anywhere near that amount?
Clearly not.

Bravohotel — good points well made!

Bravehotel,

Exactly, its the management that take the cash not the serfs lower down.

As the nice con -dem governmnet are doing sack a lot of middle management in the NHS, and give power to the surgeries,not somebody who has the ability to carry a afile all day and look important, until you ask them a question, they then pass the question on.

Always seems when ever someone in the public sector is outed for pay its a private sector pay wheeze thats given the salary in the first place. Not that I dont think he was getting paid too much.

I know, lets pay them lowish basic pay and then incentivise with massive bonuses based upon taking really dodgy risks….

Oh wait…..

btw I had better perks in the private sector. (banking)

Be interesting to know what some of union leaders are paid (I believe some of them have been kicking off over this case to), not just basic pay but all the perks, expenses etc., etc. Bet they take home rather more than the people they are supposed to serve. Not very good at their job either if we're to believe all the horror stories about poor conditions, degradtion of contractural rights, pay freezes and potential redundancies coming up in the public sector. It's not only the politicians and senior managers (public and private sector) who could do with asking themselves a few searching questions.

Be interesting to know what some CEOs are paid (I believe some of them have been kicking off over this case to), not just basic pay but all the perks, expenses etc., etc. Bet they take home rather more than the people they are supposed to lead. Not very good at their job either if we're to believe all the horror stories about poor conditions, degradtion of contractural rights, pay freezes and potential redundancies coming up

£140k a year should be the starting salary for teachers.

Does that mean university letcher-ers should get even more??

The pay / performance disparities in the public sector are the same as those in the private sector.

Some people do get paid alot for what they do, some get F all.

The 'Cast Iron' benefits that people believe the public sector get are Bullshine as well. The previous and current governments are working very hard to erode what little 'benefits' there were for working in the public sector.

dr_death – Member
Does that mean university letcher-ers should get even more??

I like your logic.

what in the name of merry **** and all that is holy can anyone manage to find to spend 140k per annum on!!!!?

and there are people debating this figure?

obscene

Be interesting to know what some of union leaders are paid

Those damned unions, always striking, causing disruption, bringing this country to its knees…I mean its like the 70's all over again. Its a good thing we clamped down on them, how else would we be able to continuously worsen the terms and conditions of working people in this country if they all stood up for themselves, it took a lot of work to turn them into spineless individuals…

And of course now we have the prosperity and economic stability brought to us by the financial sector.

Hang on a minute…

stumpyjon – Member

Be interesting to know what some of union leaders are paid ………..Not very good at their job either if we're to believe all the horror stories about poor conditions, degradtion of contractural rights, pay freezes and potential redundancies coming up in the public sector. It's not only the politicians and senior managers (public and private sector) who could do with asking themselves a few searching questions.

What you don't seem to realise, and God only knows why you don't, is that the trade unions are amongst the most democratic institutes in our society. Trade union members control everything concerning their union – they can ask all the "searching questions", as you call it. They can also get rid of any general secretary which they feel isn't up to the job. And no general secretary can simply award themselves whatever salary they wish – everything must be above board and has to be certified by the government's Certification Officer.

The accountability within trade unions is undeniable and legally enforced. Anyone who is too daft to realise that, clearly spends too much time reading the Daily Mail.

And finally what you don't seem to realise, is that what "union leaders are paid" unless you are a member of that particular union, is none of your f**king business ……. because it is not your money.

HTH 🙂

£140k a year should be the starting salary for teachers.

I'll sign up for that.

Some fairly bitter people posting on this thread on both sides.

I do find my friends in the public sector moan about their jobs alot more than my friends in the private sector, whether this means that they are just pre disposed to moan because of the union/chips on their shoulders or some odd perception that they have such tough conditions I am not sure.

I have heard of the incredible laziness in departments, the way in which it is virtually impossible to sack someone and the like but also of the real issues in "getting things done" on the front line becasue of all the middle management and red tape.

To my mind it is these things that need to be addressed as this would improve staff morale aswell as the percetion (right or wrong) that public sector workers tend to be workshy moaners (again this is tarring with the same brush.. I am fully aware there are some people who work their guts out for little praise and probably less renumeration than they deserve.

If you couldn't spend £140k a year, you lack imagination. I've just spent double that in my mental trolley dash and I've not even got to the coke and hookers aisle yet!

As the nice con -dem governmnet are doing sack a lot of middle management in the NHS, and give power to the surgeries,not somebody who has the ability to carry a afile all day and look important, until you ask them a question, they then pass the question on.

Surely the people in the NHS likely to be earning this kind of money (after bonuses etc.) are not going to be the middle management, they're going to be GPs at large practices (who can make a lot more than their basic pay), and possibly specialist consultants? Oh and a few people who run hospitals etc. maybe.

The moving of service commissioning to GPs surgeries will potentially do exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting, rather than GPs commissioning via people who work for the NHS and thus are within the NHS payscales, so their pay is limited to a certain extent, they'll end up commissioning via private companies, who have unlimited pay, and will probably be paid on some kind of commission basis, meaning they could potentially easily earn way more.

I have heard of the incredible laziness in departments, the way in which it is virtually impossible to sack someone and the like but also of the real issues in "getting things done" on the front line becasue of all the middle management and red tape.

This is exactly the same as in the private sector. Most private sector employers will never sack anyone, even complete incompetents. I've worked with and for complete numbskulls, who had obviously lied on their CVs, and bosses were completely unable to deal with them. As for layers of management, give me a large public employer over a large multinational any day. At the moment, as a junior member of staff, I have 3 levels of bosses above me to the top of our university, whereas when I worked at a big Japanese company, there were 2 levels of bosses before you got out of our 25 person local office, then god knows how many layers before you got to the guy at the top, at least 15. The amount of time wasted by middle management meetings in a big company probably outweighs productive time by 10:1, whereas where I work currently, everyone below the top manager is expected to actually do productive research work as well as looking after their management responsibilities.

I think a lot of the problems in the public sector are caused by Conservative and New Labour obsessions with 'private sector efficiency' – by people trying to import stupid private sector practices into the public sector – after all that is where all the middle management came from, and the stupid 'internal markets' and things like that. It is also where the stupid idea that you need to 'attract the best talent' to many upper management jobs by paying stratospheric salaries came from, an idea largely put around by people in upper management jobs themselves, who would like everyone to have the idea that they'd just up sticks with their family and flit off to another country if we don't fill them up with tons of money.

Personally, I actually kind of agree with the original point, I think generally we should just pay top people (directors, CEOs etc.) way less regardless of whether they are public or private sector. In the private sector we'd get much better shareholder value if we didn't pay ludicrous amounts to directors.

Joe

maxray – reckon you've about hit the nail on the head. And it comes down to poor management.

richcc – 🙂

"Most private sector employers will never sack anyone, even complete incompetents."

That isn't true in my experience but then I have only worked for companies <50 employees. Maybe the bigger companies are more similar to counciles etc which would suggest you are right and it is all the middle management and passing of the buck that causes the problems.