Don't know if this is a rant or a question!

I just want to buy an Orange R8 Sport. I like to make all my purchases through bike shop X. Shop X isn't an official Orange dealer, but is a traditional bike shop that works along the lines 'if you want it, we'll get it'. Except this time bike shop X can't get me the R8.

My shop X can't get the bike because allegedly the local Orange dealer Y once complained about X stealing business via its trad style trading wheeling and dealing. So I'm not naturally disposed towards giving Y my business. In my world capitalism works by competition you see.

So begrudgingly I rung Y to ask their best price for an R8. They refused to discount, they say they have to sell at RSP. So I'm really not wanting to give them any business. So, who here has recently bought a complete bike, and did they pay full RSP? I am asking for research purposes!

I'm getting quite miffed because I've had two Clockworks and a Gringo before – basically I've ridden Orange since 1992 or thereabouts. I want a steel hardtail, but the P7 has evolved into a machine I have no interest in, being an old school XC / mountain touring type rider, leaving the R8 as the obvious choice. But the frame is so bloody expensive. I want an Orange, with discount, unless it's from my lbs – were the service means I don't care for the price.

Anyone selling a reissued Clockwork?!

Am I being reasonable?

Try something different perhaps?

Cotic or Dialled do good steel frames.

So, you want a shop who don't know you from Adam and won't see you for dust to give you a discount on a bike because they won't get any other business out of you, ever?

So, you want a shop who don't know you from Adam and won't see you for dust to give you a discount on a bike because they won't get any other business out of you, ever?

Mmm spot the circular argument there?

Try sunset cycles in cardiff. They seem a good bunch.
http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=1399&category_id=82

Disclaimer; I have no affiliation with sunset cycles or any other shop.

wwaswas – yes. I'm one of those folk who rarely pay full price. I call it being financially astute. I'm not expecting them not to make any profit. Last time you bought a bike did you pay full RSP?

I've never bought an actual whole bike new, just a selection of shonky and not so shonky secondhand parts from the classifieds and the odd new bit from CRC or on-one.

If you want a discount my view is you either have to buy last years model or wait until the Autumn in my experience – most places can't get enough bikes at this time of year to sell at full price, let alone a discount.

They refused to discount, they say they have to sell at RSP. So I'm really not wanting to give them any business

I don't think the discount expectations that used to be commonplace are reasonable anymore – hence the little independants that went bust… If you don't want to pay their best price, buy a cheaper bike or wait for the price to drop.

My experience in bike shops (last 3 years) makes me willing to pay the price. There are some bikes where a 10% discount leaves not profit after shop running costs are taken into account.

Do you ask for a discount when you do your weekly food shop?

i wouldn't give you a discount because you seem like a jobby.

"Do you ask for a discount when you do your weekly food shop?"

No, but the fast moving consumer goods marketplace is a lot different than the luxury goods marketplace – which is what a MTB is.

argyle – thanks for your constructive comment. You seem like a well hard keyboard warrior. And as we know, internet forums are unfortunately populated by little folk who think it's okay to forget social skills and etiquette just because they're online. You can redeem yourself by letting me know if you've paid full RSP for a bike.

I don't know because I've never bought a whole bike before…….

Why would they if they can sell them at full price? Which they clearly can or they'd have discounted.

Bought the one I really wanted and had been waiting for at 40% off but had to wait until it was in the sale to do so.

RSP? ah….. Really Small Profit

argyle – thanks for your constructive comment. You seem like a well hard keyboard warrior. And as we know, internet forums are unfortunately populated by little folk who think it's okay to forget social skills and etiquette just because they're online. You can redeem yourself by letting me know if you've paid full RSP for a bike.

despite your disparaging comments, I must concur with argyle.

Am I being reasonable?

since you ask: yes, in my opinion

Orange make a limited number of reasonably well reveiwed bikes each year. Most Orange dealers that I know can't get a fair chunk of the 2010 hardtail range as availibility has started to go (see above) Pay the RSP from and Orange dealer, and enjoy the bike. If your regular shop gets you the bike through a third party it would officially be second hand before they sold it to you so you would have little or no warranty. If this is no good for you maybe try a Specialised?

It amazes me that people think getting a discount is a right. It's the price it says on the ticket, get over it!

Now I'm not against asking for a discount, I've blagged discounts before and I consider it a bonus, but if they say no, tough shit.

I've been told Oranges don't get discounted much because they always comfortably sell what they make and it's viable to run like they do. Want an Orange, pay for an Orange.

Haggling is a fine art.

It's straightforward economics. There's inelastic supply – limited edition frame, and increased demand due to good reviews etc. In a barter economy (as you seem to suggest it should be) the price of said bike would go up not down.
If you want a discount go for a mass market frame that got bad reviews.

they say they have to sell at RSP.

That's not allowed – linky

In practical terms, they probably drop a pound off the price here and there to get around it, but that's not really in line with the spirit of the regs.

Bike shops are not alone in being lazy with their pricing. Forward looking businesses will start to differentiate, by charging more than RRP in locations that will stand it (Central London / Manchester etc) and others should be able to reduce prices to become box shifters without having to resort to grey markets to source their goods.

Of course it would be difficult with distributors with the power of the likes of Madison.

EDIT: Given the supply issue, it would be interesting to see if Orange objected to a dealer charging more than RSP.

Supply is th ebiggest issue facing bike shops at the moment, many bikes and ranges are already sold out for the model year so quite often they can't replace the bike they sell so it doesn't make sense to discount it.

Basically at the moment demand is higher than supply and in that kind of market you're lucky the prices dont go up let alone not get a discount.

Ask for some extra stuff thrown in if they won't discount the bike?

Any way to get it on cycle to work or similar? Effectively a discount!

Have a look at the Rock Lobster 853 for a reasonably priced, light, Reynolds frame.

People pay for bikes????? When did this happen?

Orange are quality made bikes, yes you pay alot, but you get what you pay for. a good shop should be able to sort you out with a bit of a discount, my partner managed to get free paint job on frame and wheels and 10% off her 2010 five, but then again, she's not picking it up for 3 months, so orange don't have a short deadline to build it. they are hard to get a discount, but you may be able to get some sort of discount, it really depends on the dealer and their relationship with orange

Buy frame from dealer.

Buy bits from anywhere else. Why overcomplicate matters?

If your desperate I think I could get you 10% of retail of 1299.95. I'd have to buy it though!

fancy a frame, but seems a bit expensive compared to the competition.
I've noticed locally that rather than discounting the frame or bike as a whole, they tend to offer the upgrades either free or at a discount.

This was the case when i bought an E8 and a 5.
On the R8 the offer is RRP frame, a free hope headset and half price performance pack (thompson?).

Shame i don't need either of the last two, still theres always the bike to work scheme.

i guess Orange feel that given popularity they don't have to discount. A bit like Apple.

Orange, Apple..

"So, you want a shop who don't know you from Adam and won't see you for dust to give you a discount on a bike because they won't get any other business out of you, ever?"

That's exactly what I did when I got my Soul. Conversation went like this:
"I see you charge £470 for a Soul like everyone else"
"Yup"
"Any chance of a discount?"
"Nope, everyone else sells them for £470, why would we?"
"Because if you do, I'll buy it from you, instead of one of the other shops who sell it for £470"
"Hmm. Fair enough. £420 do you?"
"Sold"

He made a profit he wouldn't have made otherwise, I got a cheaper frame. Everyone is happy.

Anyway, as per the R8S, don't buy it at full price as it's ridiculously expensive for what you get. Even if you get a solid discount it'll still not be very good value.

Get this fella in:

Or pony up!

No harm asking for a discount, but I wouldn't be shocked at a brand new orange not being discounted…

The R8 looks like a super frame but even as a Orange diehard with a re-release Clockwork (amongst others) I'd look at a Soul (in Orange). They have stunning paint finsh, ride very well and seem well finished. The R8 is a bit pricy in comparison.

Yup, the R8 looks a lot like a less capable old-model Soul, it's even built the same, I guess imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

Anyone seen an accurate frame weight for the R8 yet? They've been keeping it very quiet, I phoned up and asked and they said "We don't know" which isn't very convincing. "Oh yeah, that superlight racey frame we do? Never weighed it". Or maybe "Yeah, we weighed it, it's not really as light as we'd like so we're not advertising it"

Thanks for the constructive comments.

To the other guys – I just rejoined this forum in January, having let my account lapse at the hacking incident. Definitely less friendly round here. A simple "you're being unreasonable" or "I've always paid RSP" would suffice as a comment.

Scottchegg – that's how I got my Gringo, bought the frame in Y, parts from X. The economics don't stack up this time, the built up bike is much better value. Thanks for the suggestion anyhow.

Never pay RSP, dont care what it is or who its from you can always get a discount.

If you reall want an R8 S discount drop me an Email. I have a plan for you….

I wonder how many of the posters above saying you shouldn't ask for a discount have bought a bike on interest free credit (can cost around 13% of the ticket price for the bike shop to offer) or on the bike to work scheme (10% taken off the top as standard)? There is no harm in asking for a discount. The worst that can happen is that you are turned down. However, if you go in cash in hand, you may well be able to get a bike shop to knock a few quid off the price. 95% of something is better than 100% of nothing. 😀

If your heart is set on an Orange and you can't get it from your favourite local bike retailer, I'd definitely recommend that you go to Biketreks in Ambleside. Great service, solid advice and cracking staff. Even though I live in Glasgow, I still regard Biketreks as my local bike shop. Always preferable in my opinion to pay full retail to a good store than get a discount from a shop you may not be keen on.

Alternatively, the Cotic Soda is a great alternative and a bit cheaper too. Coves are also a pretty decent ride as well.

Cheers

Sanny

😆

geoffj – Member

they say they have to sell at RSP.

That's not allowed

Might not be allowed but it is what happens.
Companies such as this audit the sellers books and check what price they are selling stuff at. They do not want a "niche" product(as they see it)devalued. Once one shop does a discount the rest start to follow.
Last weekend I was looking at prams/buggies with son and the same applies there. If shop sells at a certain brand at a discounted price the supplier will not supply them again.
Years ago when I got into biking my mate wanted a certain brand of bike and as OP asked for a discount, we got the same explanation re importer checking books etc and threatening to stop supplys.
It is out there and happening and I suspect in this current climate getting worse. Every manufacturer is out to protect profits and market share.

Not sure about your home town but business rates here for some shops have gone up by £10k-£50k per annum, so discounting will become scarcer than bikes soon. Add to that all the other increases and bank charges to service loans etc

So waderider why should you think you are so special that you warrant a discount on anything?

I have paid both full and discounted prices for bikes. Full price for something I really wanted, discounted for older models I wanted.

I've got an R8 and love it.
It's fast and fun to ride. Really responsive and forgiving at the same time – given it a good hammering over the winter and seems to have held out well.
Orange is a great brand, and their customer service is second to none. In order to get a dealership with a brand like Orange there needs to be a partnership, and rightly so – the dealer needs to be passionate about the brand as this sells the bike. You bike shop X dont sell Orange, and wont be able to offer the customer support it can as a dealership for it's other brands. Agreed your bike shop should seem willing – go find an Orange dealer that's passionate about the brand and I'm sure they'll bend a little
My beauty

Holy crap, it might just be my wide colour gamut monitor, but that bike is PINK!

"Because if you do, I'll buy it from you, instead of one of the other shops who sell it for £470"

That's a simply superb line. Top marks. 🙂

Orange is a great brand, and their customer service is second to none. In order to get a dealership with a brand like Orange there needs to be a partnership, and rightly so – the dealer needs to be passionate about the brand as this sells the bike

What a load of [marketing] BS