ernie, you seem to be confused about the possible role of religion in irish terrorism.
In reply to this:

But thats a nonsense though, isn’t it? They undeniably are part of Islam. They may be at the more shouty, exploded end of the spectrum, but they’re definitely part of it. To say they’re not is patently absurd.

you said this:

Of course it isn’t. In the same way that the IRA catholics and Loyalist protestants weren’t part of christianity or spreading the teachings of Christ.

and then

You’re right. The situation in NI had no connection to religion. You carry on believing that, I really CBA.

So do you think that religion is:
a) part if the problem worth considering or
b) not part of the problem and not worth considering

Its not always a straghtforward link (particularly in NI, as many of the original political thinkers in favour of Irish independence were protestants), but in islamist terrorism the link is clearer than most.

Theres no point in second guessing the reasons for the bombyness and shoutyness of some people and absolutely refusing to listen to the reasons the bombers themselves give for carrying out attacks.

Its religion all the way down, from sunni attacking shia (and vice versa) to both of them attacking the kuffar.

edlong,
Maybe asking you for evidence is going too far, but I’d genuinely like to see for once if the average muslim in the street is actually as easily offended as their alleged representatives claim they are.

Ernie,
If you are going to use “islamophobia”, can you give a definition please.
It is too often used to try to protect islamism (a political idea) from criticism, I assume you don’t subscribe to that so what would your definition be?

I can see the issue that the offended (professional or amateur) have and on the whole I agree. But….

these people who kill themselves are not part of Islam and they are not even Muslim

the whole “my religion” thing is a fairly nebulous concept. There are lots of religious schisms going back a long way and those are only the “official” documented ones. One religious local group thinking their fellow believers in the next valley are a bunch of godless heathens because they do/don’t follow one of contentious minor points of their shared creed probably goes on a lot more and goes back even longer. Lots of people cherry pick what they choose to follow in their religious beliefs, (which proves quite annoying when discussing religion in general) and that’s fine and dandy, I’m fairly easy going, I wouldn’t look at someone’s lifestyle and try to tell someone what religion they were. Of course historically religious people have a lot less problem with telling other people what religion they are/aren’t.
I’m not arguing with the muslims who say “isis/terrorists aren’t my religion” but it does lead to a discussion of at what point does one lose the right to call themselves X faith.

Of course, the point at which you kill someone, is the common sense answer but the issue it’s self is a bit more nuanced I think.

It is, you know. I don’t know if you’d noticed, or not, but over in places like Syria, Afghanistann and Iraq, there are an absolutely huge number of people who regard the exlodey version of Islam to be the one true version. They aren’t some tiny little ‘Popular Front of Judea’ style splinter group. There are loads of them. This is a huge mass movement, that now controls huge swaths of the middle east. And everything they do, they claim to do in the name of Allah.

and you know this because you’ve seen the census statistics for the region where people asked declared that to be their belief?
has it ever occurred to you that since the west carried out its own form of legitimised terrorism of blowing up mass sections of the middle east form afar using its high tech weapons it allowed these crackpots in there in the first place?
or that since many of the civilians who once lived there have fled and have since either drowned in the Mediterranean or are stuck in a refugee camp somewhere in Europe?
or that they are simply going along with those now in power simply out of fear as they know that refusal to comply will result in their deaths?

sorry but you’re talking out of your bib shorts on this one…and i think even you know it

you got 3 options:
get back under your bridge and wait for the goats
eat a pastie/sausage roll
get a job as Dodgy Dave’s new spin doctor

When these chaps blow themselves up their body parts become intertwined with body parts of is non believers.
Do they really want that?
As for the question, no apology needed. If they are so easily offended they are probably living in the wrong country.
Lighten the **** up.

Lighten the **** up.

so its perfectly ok to stereotype all muslims as being potential terrorists then is it?
in the video showing the drill, that was publicly posted on all forms of social media by GMP, the phrase can clearly be heard. so now anyone who remotely looks asian, with a beard or wearing the attire will now be treated with even more suspicion by members of the public!
and all this is doing is that it will now be used as a propaganda tool and be used by the extremists to try and further radicalise young british muslims.

its funny how they associate such acts with muslims especially when it happens in western culture…what about in the middle east, pakistan or afghanistan where its a common occurrence and its muslims killing muslims? you dont hear the media saying a “muslim terrorist has killed X many people in baghdad?” no instead they just mention that a suicide bomber has killed X many people…but as soon as its happens over here the point of everybody’s fixation becomes the terrorist religious denomination

i’m not saying that the training exercise was wrong. GMP were well within their rights to carry out this training exercise but they claimed it was to test the responses of their emergency responses in the wake of such an attack.
that attack could be by anybody…so why make it look like they were specifically training for an attack by a muslim jihadist? would a bomb attack by a non muslim be any different?

Presumably they wouldn’t be shouting some drivel about a god before enacting their particular zealotry, but seeing as the threat we face is from zealots of the Islamic type, the shout used in the rehearsal was an accurate reflection of what the real thing brings, as evidenced by the almost concurrent stabbing of members of the German public…

All the usual mild xenophobic STW stuff from the same people, no real surprises
but this is a little gem i will try to sneak into conversations!

zealots of the Islamic type

I was thinking “lighten the **** up” should be used more often on these kind of threads – LTFU has a ring to it

gonzy – Member

so its perfectly ok to stereotype all muslims as being potential terrorists then is it?

Well it certainly is if your name is Donald Trump.

Or you happen to be a low-level sanctimonious bigot who reads the Guardian.

The fact that a fifth of the world’s population is Muslim, and million upon millions of Muslims don’t go around shouting “Allahu Akbar” before blowing themselves up and killing all those around them, doesn’t come into it.

.

EDIT : On the question of “lighten the **** up” these two comment seem admirably sensible :

“We are absolutely angry and very unhappy and annoyed because these people who kill themselves are not part of Islam and they are not even Muslim. They are terrorists, simply terrorists who are brainwashing people.”

And

“We accept that those words didn’t really add anything to the exercise. It won’t be happening again.”

Im with Gonzy on this.

A/ The west caused all the mither in the ME, the silly media loves it and uses any excuse whatsoever to create division and confusion.

B/ If the Trafford Centre was attacked they would need an airborne response due to the congestion and I doubt the standard 22 stone gmp copper would pass the test,

C/ If the silly police concentrated more on talking/visibility/approachability to communities rather than trying to play at some kind of special forces superhero bellendry they wouldn’t need all this crap that will only lead to further alienation

They shouted something “Ackbar “

less than a month after this tragedy http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35965835

It’s pretty insensitive stuff

after all the lies and wrong doings of hillsborough the police seem to be apologising to anyone, for any minor indescretion, just like a naughty child saying sorry after theyve eaten all the biscuits and been sick.

Entirely different police force (gmp not Yorks) but don’t bother with details eh

police forces in general………………