A gent I know wanted a bike for loaded touring. His first router. He made his mind up on a Croix de Tour. So he found a dealer and tried to buy one. They hit a problem as there were supply issues, fork related I think.
So the shop sold him a Croix de get on the basis it was a better bike.
However when he gave it a test run with lightly loaded panniers and bar bag it was soon evident it was a wrong’un. The bike twisted and wobbled when turning and again when riding up hill. He thought it dangerous. Next he tried his old hybrid sub £300 new bike, did the same route and it was faultless.
Anyway the bikes gone back and got a very partial refund.
So I had a delve after he told me this and see that genesis made changes to the frame before calling it the tour.
What’s your view.

Probably not by law, but by common decency they should as it was their recommendation, not your gent’s original choice. Or supply the Croix de Tour with only the balance to pay, (or refund, depending on the relative prices)

Name and shame.

Name and shame.

If they don’t sort him out voluntarily, I’d do this.

I’d wonder why he decided on a Tour De Fer so assuredly but then was so easily swayed to a Croix De Fer? Every bit of spiel about the TDF says it’s different from the CDF.
Mind you, a lot of people are happy using th CDF for touring so could it be him not being used to more modern sharper geometry? Dunno.

All the steel CDF abd TDF forks were recalled, hence the delay in getting them. I think the TDF’s are in very short supply anyway

better bike.
However when he gave it a test run with lightly loaded panniers and bar bag it was soon evident it was a wrong’un. The bike twisted and wobbled when turning and again when riding up hill. He thought it dangerous. Next he tried his old hybrid sub £300 new bike, did the same route and it was faultless.

I can tell you right here and now, as a 2015 Croix De Fer 10 owner, and weighing 16 stone myself, that it doesn’t wobble, flex or do anything of the sort. I’ve just done a 300 mile tour on it too. That bike is as solid as a rock, the wheels are built like tanks, and it’s perfectly fine for touring even fairly heavily laden.
My guess is that he’s not used to drop bars.

EDIT
The new forks made no difference to the ride I could feel. It was a longevity issue.

So the lower BB and thicker tubing on the Tour,why the need.
The guys an experienced Audaxer, SR round the year and all that.

lower BB and thicker tubing on the Tour,why the need

Realistic lifespans under a 25-30kg touring load would be my guess. The ODs are the same. 0.1mm more or so (I’d guess) on the DT wall thickness for durability won’t make any difference to the handling though. I know what the std CdF will/would handle under fatigue testing and it’ll be fine for lighter loads for extended use, say up to 15kg. A lower BB is simply a good thing on a bike that’s unlikely to go off-road to the same extent, or be pedaled around corners. No effect on steering response in general though imo.

I expect what he’s feeling may be a steering flop response that’s coming from a heavier load than what some would call ‘lightly loaded panniers’. The CdF handles fine with a light-middling and evenly-distributed load but put 10kg on the front and I’d imagine it to have a side-dive tendancy .. like any bike that isn’t designed to have a heavy load on the steering. My road bike does that to a noticeable level with just 3-5kg on the bars.

have done a fair amount of light touring on my Croix De Fer’s, 2014 one and now a 2015 version, and they have both been solid and stable, with none of the issues you mention. Blackburn rack and pair of Ortlieb backroller plus, loaded up for couple of nights B&B. 60 plus miles daily on highland and island b/c class roads with 32c tourers or 35 c coross-speeds.

I think the confusion is from the description of what he feels, the bike is no noodle, too stiff for some who expect a whippier 531 feeling bike if anything, but the steering response of a loaded bike can be quite different to an unloaded bike.

I adjust to steering a loaded bike pretty quickly and there’s no way a loaded bike can feel like an unloaded one. Well, there’s bikes that ride really well with a load up front but they may not be what you’d want to ride unloaded.

Could be a whole host of factors. Bar positioning, weight distribution etc will all have an affect. I’ve seen quite a few LEJOG/JOGLE CdFs through work though and no one seems to have had any problems with them.

For what it’s worth, probably not much, I did a quick bikepacking trip last night. I had a bar harness on with my sleep kit, I couldn’t cycle no handed at all (when I can with no bar harness)

The weight made the steering flop to one side straight away, rather than a minor wiggle when unloaded

…….which is entirely understandable and to be expected

Wasn’t complaining, just highlighting that weight on the front makes it go funny in a way that no weight doesn’t 😀

Anyway the bikes gone back and got a very partial refund.

How much? I hope he’s not been done over in that respect…

Ended up with a Kona Sutra? saw him yesterday just as he was setting off. Bike and rider doing well.