So possibly a daft question, but is it possible to removeH/T, shortenTT/DT and re-fitH/T without creating to much chaos with angles etc?
I have a frame that I REALLY like, but it is just a little too short for me, even with a very short stem and short reach bar. in terms of cost I would be looking at at least £500 for a new frameset, more like £1000 given that the list includes things like an RLT, Datum or one of the PX/OO gravel frames! so the fact that it may cost isn’t the issue/question, mainly is it feasible and practical?
Standard 4130 tubing. Before anyone suggests that I get a smaller frame, I thought about that when I bought this one, but as I have a bad neck the lower front end was an issue. so Ideally I need short TT-hi front/stack.
That and the dealer I got it from seems to have gone, so no option to get a small even if that was the way I wanted to go!
Thanks in advance and anticipation.

If you’re running the same fork on the same model frame in a smaller size, your bar height will be the same unless you cut the fork’s steerer tube.

Argos Cycles published list of frame repairs shows they’ll charge £150 for replacing a headtube – factor in that this doesn’t involve remitring the tubes and probably in excess of £200 and then factor-in respray / powdercoat and you’re probably north of £300 – as your frame is probably welded, then there’s more work to factor-in as you simply can’t ‘sweat’ the head-tube off by melting the braze.
Don’t know what make/model of frame you have but guess for £300+ you’ll have a pick of lots of used frames in good nick that haven’t been cut’n’shut.

Bit of a minefield and depends on how far you need to go.

If it’s a big chop you’ll need a new headtube anyway which, as above if it’s welded would be the easier option.

Then you need to double check for toe overlap and clearance from fork crown and front wheel on down tube too.

as I said in the OP, I have neck issues etc so just being a used frame isn’t that simple, otherwise that’s what i would have done instead of buying this one in the first place. Even a new frame is proving a challenge to find on that will fit, on paper at least. This one was shorter according to the geo sheet on the website than my CX bike which it was replacing, except it is in fact a little longer, presumably as its measured slightly differently.
I don’t want to buy another frame mail order of the page, so would need to go to try a few out, even if that means just to have a sit on. where I live there aren’t a vast array of bike shops local, that will stock the frames/bikes I am interested in, in the size i need to try.
So a trip to ?… On the short list is an RLT for example. LBS can’t really get a demo, a ring around unearths no one with a bike at all that is in stock, let alone the size I want, at time of looking(a few weeks ago now).
Alpkit Sonder, they will have a demo they can post up in June/July in the size I am interested, assuming that the stock due then doesn’t pre sell before arrival, they have nothing at present to demo or sell.
If I want to check out an ONONE gravel bike I need to get down to Barnsley or Sheffield, though they suggest I call first to make sure that they have the size I need, in stock/on the shop floor. Fair enough.
So when you say I could get a used frame for about £300+, maybe, but I may end up with another frame that doesn’t fit. Like the 2 I currently have!!
And I get that some of you are thinking I just MFU up and ride what I have, but given that it is a medical issue I am trying to manage, not so much, otherwise I of course would do so.
And I mentioned I really like the ride of the bike other than reach, no?
So £300-sh for a proper refit sounds ok to me. YMMV as they say.
For those with some pointers, thank you. I am happy for more input.

Cheers Neil, toe overlap is fine fortunately. As for HT length there is plenty of steerer left so a few less spacers would be ok(about 70mm worth currently). I need maybe 30mm shorter.

There are so many unknowns that it’s really hard to give an accurate answer.

I suggest you have a chat with ben cooper (Member link) who posts on here, he builds custom frames and all sorts of unusual wheeled machines.

This is his shop.

Framebuilding

Yup, it’s do-able. The major factor is it’s going to raise your front end up if you shorten by much, as the HT/DT intersection has to move down the DT.

Or could slacken off the head angle a bit if you want to go that way, keeping the bottom of the HT in about the same place but moving the top of the HT nearer to you – but that might alter the riding characteristics you like about the frame (though shortening it will do that a bit too).

I’ve done simple cut-and-shut jobs to convert frames from 1″ to 1 1/8″, this is similar, simple to do unless you want to replace the DT as well, which adds a little complication (though not much).

Edit: Thanks for the referral 😉

Have you thought about switching to a flat bar setup? I’d imagine switching from drops to flats could move your hands back by about 30-50mm?

A slightly higher stack is fine, in fact a bonus. The issue is that due to an old neck injury I can’t raise my head too much, hence the need for a shorter reach and a little more stack. I am happy that a degree or so wouldn’t alter the “ride” significantly. As its a bike for touring a little slower in terms of steering wouldn’t be that noticeable I imagine. I shall contact you via the Kinetic website Ben for a quote etc. Thanks for the input.
While I remember, its a twin TT, does that change anything?

I could just ride my Jones and not bother with the drop bar bike at all I guess. But I bought a drop bar bike ‘cos I want a drop bar bike, I just want one that fits is all 🙄

While I remember, its a twin TT, does that change anything?

Shouldn’t be a big deal, it’s just cutting back and remitering, so as long as the tubes are still in a sensible place then no problem.

What frame (and size) is it.
There may be frames out there that you haven’t (yet) considered. Or even know that they exist.

Someone on here may be able to point you in a different (but more comfortable) direction. Picture of current set up might help too……..

In fairness, it’s not that I don’t know what the options/choices are, it’s that it will cost (probably) more to buy a new frame than fix this one, especially given that i would need to travel etc to try them or see one in the flesh with a tape measure in hand. Again, assuming I can find them in stock somewhere. Given the logistics of getting to see the ones that are on my shortlist, more doesn’t particularly help in this case 😉

The offending article. For info, that stem was too long, I have a shorter one fitted now, plus shorter cranks.

Van dessel wtf.
What size is it?

53cm, med.

Moving the saddle forward is not an option? Looks to be an easy inch there, that’s before you swap the layback for an inline post.
Should open up your hip angle and save your back a bit more…

I know its bit of a lie STW cliché, but have you considered a bike fitting (one that takes into account your neck issue)? Doing a cut’n’shut on the frame seems like a pretty drastic, last ditch solution…

I appreciate you have neck problems but the bars, steerer etc all a right mess. There is lots that need sorting out before you should even consider anything as drastic as modifying the frame and I agree you could do with some help.

Have you considered some compact drops? They would bring the reach in a bit more and you might find a more suitable shape bar too.

+1 to the inline post too. I think you could easily reduce the reach by 40mm with bars, post and adjusting the saddle.

When you got the frame you should have sized for the reach. The fork a-c will be the same so the only reason for a lower stack is smaller frames often come with shorted heat tubes. This is easily made up with spacers.

the bars, steerer etc all a right mess. There is lots that need sorting out

What’s wrong with the bars and the steerer then?

Would a bike fit not be a better place to start than chopping a frame up?

Is the front wheel not going to touch the down tube if you move it back?

Yer bike looks fked.

A bike fit as suggested might be a good bet. Make sure you go and see someone decent; Scherrit Knoesen is supposed to be good.

What’re your neck issues? Should prevent you from getting a more “normal” position since most of that is done in the hips. Brooks saddle probably doesn’t help

Not knowing the issue with your neck, it’s hard to say what would help.
From an outside perspective I’d suggest a bike fit but you could also shorten the effective reach by using short reach bars.
Plenty of things to do before hacking the frame. (No offence to Ben)

Geometry details for the WTF seem a little scant online, what I did find seems to indicate your 53 is a pretty standard set of numbers 74* SA, 72* HA, 545mm TT, going down a size would take about 20mm off the TT length, but you already seem to have a fair bit of post sticking out.

Half the appeal of the twin, curved TT-Seatstays was it’s damping characteristics I assume, also for your neck issues…

It did occur to me that if adjusting seat position and/or fitting an inline post, didn’t help and you still went for a frame modification, it might be less of a ballache to have the seat tube re-positioned? Cut out the gusset between the TTs and either put a little forwards bend on the existing tube, or cut it off and use a mitred butt to bring the angle to say 76*?

I still think it’s a last option but that would be less of a nightmare than lopping an inch out of the top and down tubes… Right?

Other things to consider maybe:
carbon post for extra vibration damping? (might help your neck)
Carbon bars? For the same reason.
More compact drops, and maybe some narrower bars to try and bring your position more upright?
change of saddle (or is that sacrilegious)?
Turn the seatpost right round, to give some “lay-forwads” and part simulate your proposed frame shortening, gives an idea of how it would feel/work, might look odd but the goal is to tune your position…

You could try some new handle bars, something like the Jones ones. They would suit the look of the bike and give you multiple positions? Cheers 1 shed.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/mobile/humpert-aerowing-2-handlebars-318mm-clamp-black-prod35801/ these would be a cheap solution?

You could try turning the stem round so the bars are actually behind the steerer rather than in front.

I don’t know if that would make it horribly twitchy when you’re on the tops but it would give you the upright position you want.