Why do farmers deserve more sympathy than people working in tyre factories ?

they dont but we all need food but not tyres loosing faers is nto in our long term best interest. They do a lot of countryside management as well and maintain the footpaths and bridleways on their land , trim hedges etc. that has value to me.
We will end up with super farms which is not a good thing IMHO.
DS has apoint they could selllocally but what the supermarkets dod was buy in bulk for a reasonable price then slowly over time reduce that price one the old network/distribution was gone. I suspect they will be happy to generalise this model to everything else they do as they can exploit the suppliers as well as the consumer

id have your back in that fight jenbe

don simon – Member
Because the smaller farms already struggle for money and what you’re suggesting is that they set-up an operation that involves buying in containers to hold the milk and then either hiring more people or installing machinery to fill said containers and then someone to sell said containers. On top of that to sell all the milk that they get they’d probably need some form of marketing campaign too.

Erm, yes! And if they can’t do all that without making a profit, there isn’t a business.
Or, they could group together and buy equipment between, say, 5 farms and share the profits. We could even call it a co-operative as they’d be working together.

5 skint people put together dont have any money, what planet are you on? seriously i expect you have spent you hole life in a town haven’t you!0 to build a botteling and heat treatment plant would cost many millions of pounds!

what the supermarkets dod was buy in bulk for a reasonable price then slowly over time reduce that price one the old network/distribution was gone.

Surely that was the MMB (Milk Marketing Board, later Dairy Crest) as they were generally responsible for setting prices and collecting a large majority of the nation’s milk.

the days of the MMB our gone, no more fixed price…no more milk very soon… even the really big boys are struggling!

The real villain’s here are not the police, Tescos or the community. It’s the council for letting the planning go through with overwhelming local opposition because they don’t value or care about the community.

Nail. Head.

5 skint people put together dont have any money, what planet are you on? seriously i expect you have spent you hole life in a town haven’t you!

That’s right, my grandfather didn’t have a dairy farm in rural Cheshire. I didn’t work in a creamery in rural Shropshire. I didn’t lose my job because of mechanisation of the cheesemaking process. I don’t live halfway up a mountain in rural Spain. I don’t have a business degree. I don’t speak to people of influence in large organisations. I didn’t work with a guy whose father, a farmer, committed suicide. But don’t let any of that worry you. 😉

the days of the MMB our gone, no more fixed price…no more milk very soon… even the really big boys are struggling!

Thanks, I didn’t know that. What have they done with the Thames Ditton offices?

don simon

The MMB hasnt existed for at least 15 years or more, can remember my granny saying that milk was over when they stopped the fixed price, when i was little kid, shame used to like the cows, just cabbages now… 🙁 many small farmers have killed them selves because of that and its not funny at all…

The MMB hasnt existed for at least 15 years or more,

I know, I used to work for them. 😉

the MMB was disbanded in 1994 and replaced by the free market one of its roles was to guarantee a minimum price Dairy crest still exists but is an independent organisation now. I think my point still holds true about what they [supermarkets] did was aggre to buy all the supply then negotiate the price downwards. it is almost at the same price now as it was in 1994 though to be fair to the supermarkets

EDIT: why mention it if you knew? You dont need to know much about them good luck with the MBA 😉

I SMELL TROLL

the days of the MMB our gone, no more fixed price…no more milk very soon… even the really big boys are struggling!

Thanks, I didn’t know that

The MMB hasnt existed for at least 15 years or more,

I know, I used to work for them.

I know, I used to work for them.

funny that, i remember MMB measuring sticker on the glass milk vats in the milking poulour, watching the milk squirt in to them, and then the vacuum emptying them in a most cool way,is my strongest memoires from child hood for some reason…just out of interest what year did you guys close? remember being quite young at the time, must have been very early 90’s.. i seem to remember that the processing plant in St earth closed not long after it was taken over by dairy cress, 🙁 sad times…

I’ll just throw my weight behind the “tescos don’t ruin high streets, consumers do” arguments – but actually its not just consumers, in many cases its the existing retailers too.

My Grandfather used to run a local grocers shop in a small town in the 1980’s. When Tesco arrived down the road he worried it would affect his business. It did, but he adapted and survived. People continued to use his shop because they got great service, it was convenient, and he tried his best to keep a wide range of goods which people wanted to buy. Yes he suffered, yes he didn’t have much good stuff to say about Tesco, but that shop is still open today (under different owners).

The same logic applies to Greggs which someone mentioned. We have three bakers in the town. In my opinion they are all pretty rubbish, old fashioned, with poor customer service (would a smile cost?), in dated, dingy shops, with a dull product range that’s not changed in 30 years. Greggs arrived in town last year – its a much more modern shop, with staff who have been trained to be vaguely polite, products which are well presented and with some variation. Greggs is actually more expensive – so if the “local” bakers die out, its not Greggs fault, they’ve just delivered what consumers want. The local bakers have always had the option to modernise but don’t.

In many way the LBS analogy is similar. Many people here will point you towards a great LBS with amazing service, in a well run modern shop with constantly updated stock etc. But many of us will be able to think of LBS which are less friendly, less up-to-date and who would rather grumble about the internet or Evans squashing them out of business than working out how to deliver something that makes your shop better than the competition (in the eyes of the customer).

The high street is changing – that is inevitable. Shops which can succeed on high streets are those which can’t be easily delivered on the internet. I think opening hours is something most local shops really need to think about.

Why you would need to “riot” outside a tesco’s is a bit odd – surely if feeling is that strong market forces will mean “nobody” in the town wants to shop there and the existing shops will thrive, and tesco’s will close? Or is the reality that there are a small vocal minority who are protesting whilst most people are grateful for the convenience / opening hours / range of products / prices / helpful staff or whatever else?

the MMB was disbanded in 1994 and replaced by the free market one of its roles was to guarantee a minimum price Dairy crest still exists but is an independent organisation now. I think my point still holds true about what they [supermarkets] did was aggre to buy all the supply then negotiate the price downwards. it is almost at the same price now as it was in 1994 though to be fair to the supermarkets

yea but costs for farmers have increased quite a bit since 1994!!!

If I remember we changed from MMB to Dairy Crest in the early eighties and as a private organisation the whole dynamic changed and I lost my job. Hey ho! That’s life, dust yourself down and get on with life. I then went on to work for a small independant creamery which I believe is still producing farmhouse cheeses from just outside Chester (Mollington), if you want to look for them. It is possible to be a small and successful producer Jenbe. Sitting on your hands and expecting someone to dig you out of your hole is not acceptable, bleating about it isn’t going to win over my support either. The independant creamery has it’s own dairy herd, hard cheese production and soft cheese production and is probably on the lookout for new products or new markets in order to continue making money. If they can do it, anyone can.
My point of view is that as a small business owner, very small, I have to constantly fight with the competition to win business from a customer base that doesn’t like what I do! I have one competitor who is now offering the product for free!! For FREE!! How am I supposed to compete with that? I know, I’ll cry until someone listens to me, shall I? I’ll blame the rest of the world for the problems I have to solve. Or, I know, I’ll try and find a solution that will allow me to release the product for free AND make money. I think I have the solution.
Do you think you have the ability to guess what the solution is? 😉
I’m off for a ride now, see you later.

If I remember we changed from MMB to Dairy Crest in the early eighties and as a private organisation the whole dynamic changed and I lost my job. Hey ho! That’s life, dust yourself down and get on with life. I then went on to work for a small independant creamery which I believe is still producing farmhouse cheeses from just outside Chester (Mollington), if you want to look for them. It is possible to be a small and successful producer Jenbe. Sitting on your hands and expecting someone to dig you out of your hole is not acceptable, bleating about it isn’t going to win over my support either. The independant creamery has it’s own dairy herd, hard cheese production and soft cheese production and is probably on the lookout for new products or new markets in order to continue making money. If they can do it, anyone can.
My point of view is that as a small business owner, very small, I have to constantly fight with the competition to win business from a customer base that doesn’t like what I do! I have one competitor who is now offering the product for free!! For FREE!! How am I supposed to compete with that? I know, I’ll cry until someone listens to me, shall I? I’ll blame the rest of the world for the problems I have to solve. Or, I know, I’ll try and find a solution that will allow me to release the product for free AND make money. I think I have the solution.
Do you think you have the ability to guess what the solution is?
I’m off for a ride now, see you later.

some of the really small guys have only got maybe 50 cows you cant do much with that,im not saying it cant be done, many people have tried released it was hopless and then shot them selves over it..nuff said!

how you going to start a creamery when you 90 grand in debit?

The high street is changing – that is inevitable

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PSyiRXIEyc[/video]

yea but costs for farmers have increased quite a bit since 1994!!!

I know the be fair line was sarcasm

some of the really small guys have only got maybe 50 cows you cant do much with that,im not saying it cant be done,

Co-operatives, that’s how the small, and I mean small, olive producers do it in Spain.

how you going to start a creamery when you 90 grand in debit?

If you’ve got a good business and a good business plan, I don’t see the problem.
I can also can’t help thinking that you’ve probably come to close to the suicide aspect which is never good, it’s only business and a game, and definitely worth someone’s life. Let’s call it a day and get back to the Tesco thingy.

Hey ho! That’s life, dust yourself down and get on with life

If you’ve got a good business and a good business plan, I don’t see the problem.

yeah.. that’s all very well and good.. but what if you’re just a skint dairy farmer trying to scratch a living the way that you always have.. and your fathers before you..
business plans my spotty arse you nauseating oik..

If you’ve got a good business and a good business plan, I don’t see the problem.
I can also can’t help thinking that you’ve probably come to close to the suicide aspect which is never good, it’s only business and a game, and definitely worth someone’s life. Let’s call it a day and get back to the Tesco thingy.

Mr bank person, i know i already owe you 90 grand and i have no real income, but can a i borrow about 1 million because i want to build a small chess factory…..

yea but costs for farmers have increased quite a bit since 1994!!!

I know the be fair line was sarcasm

lol, 🙂

I’ve never understood why if farmers are not making money on milk they continue to have dairy herds? Surely if a bit of your business is loss making you change (so if the market won’t let you put up prices start selling beef, or diversify completely). I fully appreciate that without milk the country has a “problem” but if some farmers change then simply supply-demand will push prices up for others (I realise also that if you push this too far that it becomes cheaper to import – but thats not really a concern for an individual farmer). So can anyone explain why individual farmers are apparently losing money on milk to “subsidise” tesco etc?

poly – Member
I’ve never understood why if farmers are not making money on milk they continue to have dairy herds? Surely if a bit of your business is loss making you change (so if the market won’t let you put up prices start selling beef, or diversify completely). I fully appreciate that without milk the country has a “problem” but if some farmers change then simply supply-demand will push prices up for others (I realise also that if you push this too far that it becomes cheaper to import – but thats not really a concern for an individual farmer). So can anyone explain why individual farmers are apparently losing money on milk to “subsidise” tesco etc?

farming is not a job its a way of life, also maybe the farmers have some emotional attachment to their cows! also cows in this country are treated better than in any other, i wouldn’t eat any dairy or meat product from any other country, Danish bacon is very cruel…look it up on the net for youre self!!!!! also with out farmers the country side will not be looked after, no more green rolling feilds! also the super markets tell the farmers to use more chemicals on their crops to get a more uniform crop, they are bastards and need to be taken down several levels, and just maybe this riot is the start of that!

just been to tescos and it was fookin rammed.

yes my family did go completely in to vegetables,but you need a lot of land to make money from that and very expensive tractors and equipment not all farming familys are lucky and have the money and land to do that, its these people that are really being hit hard. Any way the cows gave the place a soul…its not really a farm with out cows..:(

I’ve never understood why if farmers are not making money on milk they continue to have dairy herds?

You are a farmer your parents were farmer sand your grandparents before all left this to you to manage and pass on to the next generation. It is all you know all you ever wanted to do. You know everyone in the local area and it defines who and what you are. It is not that easy to just switch as that would require the money you dont have to do this. Banks are not lending to risky business propositions whatever our MBA expert suggests.
Like DS says if the individual producers like the olive growers had stayed together but her eThatcher let the freemarket riegn supreme. Once the position os established it is very hard to change.
Look at ebay risk free auction site [ for the owners] who are now upping paypal fees[ who they bought] and making even more money as there are few other auction sites with the consumer base.
It is what unregulated capitalism does – break the competition and exploit your dominance fro profit and consumers are complicit in wanting cheaper prices above all else. How many folk here get milk delivered as another example

god i want to go trash a tesco…

Don’t trash my local one please, I need more points on my card, also stay clear of greggs, love the sausage bean and cheese pasties. Nom nom 🙂

Don’t trash my local one please, I need more points on my card, also stay clear of greggs, love the sausage bean and cheese pasties. Nom nom

i got a pasty from their once, i almost puked, never again….that was not a cornish pasty, that was something very nasty!

You are a farmer your parents were farmer sand your grandparents before…

There’s yer problem.
If people are so unimaginative, is it any wonder the supermarkets take advantage of them.
My dad was an aircraft mechanic in the Fleet Air Arm. Should I moan about how the navy doesn’t fly Seafires any more and expect to live on subsidies and grants, or should I adapt to a changing world ?

Jenbe / Junkyard,

Yes that “seems” to be all that keeps dairy producers going. However they can’t actually be loss making (because they’ve been claiming that for the last 10 yrs or more so would have gone bust). I don’t doubt its not a way to get rich. There are plenty of other careers where people have only known one thing and one day the rug gets pulled from under them and they have to go and find something else to do for the money. If I am to believe what I see on telly then the upcoming generations are not interested in continuing in farming so perhaps the market dynamic will be affected by that in 10-20 yrs.

I’m not criticising farmers for choosing to continue, and I do recognise that without farmers (although obviously dairy is not the only thing in the countryside) that the countryside might be quite different – but whilst they “muddle on” its hard for either politicians or me as a consumer to believe its as financially punitive as the rhetoric would suggest. Their issue is not that tesco’s will only pay 25p/L for milk, but that the farmer down the road is willing to sell it to them for 25p/L.

I like the fantasy “Guardians of the countryside” image as well.
What that means in reality is that they will begrudgingly allow the use of public RoWs across their land, as long as the local council maintains the gates and stiles.

Yes that “seems” to be all that keeps dairy producers going. However they can’t actually be loss making (because they’ve been claiming that for the last 10 yrs or more so would have gone bust). I don’t doubt its not a way to get rich. There are plenty of other careers where people have only known one thing and one day the rug gets pulled from under them and they have to go and find something else to do for the money. If I am to believe what I see on telly then the upcoming generations are not interested in continuing in farming so perhaps the market dynamic will be affected by that in 10-20 yrs.

I’m not criticising farmers for choosing to continue, and I do recognise that without farmers (although obviously dairy is not the only thing in the countryside) that the countryside might be quite different – but whilst they “muddle on” its hard for either politicians or me as a consumer to believe its as financially punitive as the rhetoric would suggest. Their issue is not that tesco’s will only pay 25p/L for milk, but that the farmer down the road is willing to sell it to them for 25p/L.

being a farmer is not the same as being a aircraft mechaince, its a life styel..etc..you clearly dont understand the enormity of milk proudction and all food production being in the control of large companys!

all you townie farmer hating morons can go **** youre selves!

Moooooove along now!

I like the fantasy “Guardians of the countryside” image as well.

well thatis a fantasy for sure but if you think monolithic multinational agribusinesses will make it better then I would disagree.
Re farms read above about the emotional links the owners have to the farm, the community and their way of life. Many tick over [ but given noporce increase in the last 16 years how profitable can it be?] I suspect the hourly rate is shocking when you consider the hours.
EDIT: I am no defending farmers as a noble breed etc but they are getting royally shafted by big business

so where you getting your cheap shopping then if not corporate supermarket?

I like the fantasy “Guardians of the countryside” image as well.
What that means in reality is that they will begrudgingly allow the use of public RoWs across their land, as long as the local council maintains the gates and stiles.

yea this problem is mainly caused by **** with dogs that seem to think they can let them kill the sheep and other animals, most farmers dont have a problem with footpaths etc,to many people take the piss and do a lot more than walk through a field, upset cows etc, and why should they pay for the styles?? do you know how many people die trespassing on farms every year…shakes fist and goes out on bike to calm down…..