why are the UN (us/america) not going in?

the place is going to end up in the dark ages

Because Blair is no longer in charge.

ton – Member

why are the UN (us/america) not going in?

Who are the bad guys?

the place is going to end up in the dark ages

They created it themselves and if everyone goes in the dark ages will spread like wild fire.

Because any Brit going to fight in Syria against the Syrian government considered a terrorist.

We don’t mind Syrians killing Syrians, or other foreigners for that matter killing Syrians, as long as they don’t come to the UK afterwards.

Any Brit going to fight in Syria against the Syrian government will be arrested and face imprisonment on their return.

But, and this is the important thing, we don’t want the Syrian government to win. Basically we don’t want either side to win but we do want the war to continue.

The reason no one is getting involved is because there’s nothing worth salvaging/ controlling the area for, no decent oil or mineral reserves or am I just being cynical?

Not that Assad is a big ally but thought it was cos the rebels have Al Qaeda ties.

Edit, also Russia is an Assad ally and we don’t want world war 3?

We are involved. If the West and it’s tyrannical allies in the Gulf states didn’t support the the “rebels” (or Islamists if they are Brits) then the war would have been over a long time ago.

I think that no one has a clue as to what is going on and as mentioned above Syria has negligible natural resources worth securing. It’s economy has been propped up over the years by the Russian navy using its ports, which is also another reason that NATO is keeping out.

I would say, amongst other things, that due to the Iraq and Afghanistan debacles public opinion is very much against getting involved in any kind of war right now. Plus, as has already been pointed out, it’s a total mess with no easy solutions

Actually Syria whilst it has no significant oil reserves itself is strategically important due its close proximity to Western oil supplies. It’s a large country in the Middle East. The whole of the Middle East is important to the West because of oil.

Didn’t China and Russia block any UN mandated “legal” intervention?

Iraq and Afghanistan.
This took serious political capital and the sight of bodies coming back to UK/US airbases (and the other countries that took part) is not palatable going forward for the leadership.
Throw in Russia as a supporter, and the lack of a UN Mandate (well I suppose we could make some stuff up) will put most off.
Finally it’s really unclear who is right and it’s really hard to commit to jumping in on one side if you don’t know if they are going to turn out to be human rights abusing dictators or massive supporters of global terrorism and haters of the countries that turned up to support them. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan#1980s:_Insurrection)

Because Putin made an arse of them and took away the reason they were manufacturing for going in. If not for that there would be far more interference going on, don’t kid yourself that they aren’t involved. Supplying weapons and intell.

Who are the bad guys?

Apparently they’re all bad guys 🙄

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10279817/Tony-Abbott-ridiculed-after-describing-Syrian-conflict-as-baddies-versus-baddies.html

at least they didn’t ask him where Syria was Zokes

zokes – Still not a customer

Who are the bad guys?

Apparently they’re all bad guys

Yep, baddies vs baddies.

John Wayne is cool.

Didn’t China and Russia block any UN mandated “legal” intervention?

The West doesn’t need a legal mandate to attack a country, Blair and Bush proved that. Western leaders do not get put on trial for war crimes at the Hague – you would need a revolution for that to happen.

The West’s reluctance to intervene directly probably owes more to uncertainty about the rebels than any concern about international law which they are perfectly happy to flout if deemed necessary.

Israel regularly intervenes directly and bombs Syria to stoke up the flames of war and ensure that neither side gets too much of the upper hand. The Syrian War suits Israel’s interests admirably, and they certainly don’t want the “rebels” to win, they just want them and Hezbollah to save them the trouble and kill each other.

Israel Bombs Syria as the U.S. Considers Its Own Military Options

The West doesn’t need a legal mandate to attack a country, Blair and Bush proved that.

But you could also say the escapades of Blair & Bush have tempered those that follow them. Being proved to have been wrong on so many levels and to have lead their countries into what have turned out to be massively unpopular and messy conflicts may slow down some from leaping in to some things. Certainly it’s lead to people wanting UN approval before heading anywhere but as long as Russia & China block moves then nothing will happen.

If the West goes all out on Syria then the West can say goodbye to Ukraine by saying hello to the “new” USSR again. 😈 That’s one reason dark ages will spread again …

We wont intervene as their is no reason to. What gives us the right to interfere in the internal politics of another country and burden ourselves with more debt and waste the lives of our servicemen to no purpose? Syria and whoever wins is no threat to the west.

If you advocate intervention then why not a middle east solution using their armed forces? They have several ‘UN’ type military co-operation agreements they could use to send a Arab or Muslim peace force to provide humanitarian assistance?

But you could also say the escapades of Blair & Bush have tempered those that follow them.

Oh yeah I wouldn’t deny that. But the US/NATO aren’t bound by UN mandates, the preparations that the US and other NATO countries were making for military strikes against Syria at the time when Russia struck a deal to have all Syrian government held chemical weapons destroyed proves that**

As does the fact that they made a mockery of the UN mandate with regards to Libya and went far beyond enforcing a no-fly zone and intervened directly on behalf of one side.

Israel attacks countries with complete impunity and no one bats an eyelid. If Israeli leaders don’t face trial at the Hague then as sure as hell US and other NATO leaders won’t either.

Western governments only use UN mandates for domestic consumption, if they feel that their electorates have been manipulated sufficiently and they’re not required then they don’t bother with them.

** I don’t think there was ever a plan to seriously damage the Syrian regime, punitive bombing, as regularly carried out by Israel, would have provided some empty posturing and had a negative effect on the Syrian regime at a time when it was making gains against the rebels. But the stalemate could still be maintained so it wasn’t vitally necessary.

I would have thought that the current Syria conflict, much like that in Iraq, is a blessing for the western countries (read USA) as it keeps both Islamists and Sryia/Hezbollah busy killing each other, almost a win win situation.
All they have to do is stoke the fires a little and ensure that each side does not gain to much of a strategic advantage, it also de-stabilizes a Russian client state into the bargain.

I’m remembering this through an early-morning, pre-coffee fug, but I think it’s all to do with a huge gas field that straddles Omani and Iranian borders. There are two pipelines being built to transport the gas to the Mediterranean; one from Oman and terminating at Turkey’s coastline, one from Iran routing through Syria. Obviously, whichever pipeline is finished first results in those countries getting the financial windfall that comes with exporting gas to Europe. The US would rather that neither Syria or Iran profit (colluding together as the only countries in the region where the ruling class share that particular flavour of Islam), but can’t be seen to be acting too directly. So, assisted by ongoing humanitarian issues within the Syrian borders they manufacture an (apparently falsely-attributed) atrocity bad enough to swing public opinions on whether or not they should “go in”, and if a couple of supply lines or pipeline manufacturing plants get damaged in the process, so be it. Except Putin had different ideas, and the general public-at-large are now wise to the use of propaganda to sway their opinion.

I might have dreamed this though…

EDIT – Apparently not, although the fug helped me haze over Turkey’s involvement: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201285133440424621.html

What will happen to the Christians and others is the rebels win?

If hes that unpopular why hasnt he been deposed?

Dont apply McDonalds/Western culture or even attempt to the Arab way.

The reason no one is getting involved is because there’s nothing worth salvaging/ controlling the area for, no decent oil or mineral reserves or am I just being cynical?

This. Syria is a lovely country that used to be full of lovely people with some great tourism but not much else and crucially, Syria has been pally with Russia for too long so isn’t one of our pals. I expect our Government were quite relieved when MPs voted resoundingly NO to getting involved there.

1) Depends on what side they are on – others can cover a lot of people
2) For everyone who is hated there are people who love them/fear them/have too much to lose
3) No idea, try after another coffee?

FlyingOx, not seen that one but makes a bit of sense when coupled with not being willing to get into something that you wont get out of for years.

Has anyone been to Syria pre-war? From what I’ve heard it wasn’t a bad place.

Nor was Afghanistan in the 60s and 70s. Now look at it.

What will happen to the Christians and others is the rebels win?

Well they are already being targeted by anti-Assad forces, despite the rebels need for Western support, so it would fair to assume that the situation would as least bad as in Iraq where more than three quarters of Iraq’s one million plus Christians have been forced to flee since the fall of Saddam and most of their churches destroyed.

Under Ba’ath Party rule there was no discrimination against Christians that’s why Iraq’s Foreign Minister, Tariq Aziz, was a Christian. The situation in Iraq today is somewhat different.

Christians targeted by foreign Jihadis in Syrian war

Yep. Then theres the Sunnis and Shias killing innocent civilians en masse…

Much like what will happen with Shias and Sunni’s etc post fall of their strong Arab leader.

hora – Member

What will happen to the Christians and others is the rebels win?

Loose their heads. For sure. 😈