I need a new computer, this one is dying. Also, the wife wants the dining table back so it's time for a laptop. Should I get a PC in the new year or wait until April and splash out on a macbook?

All i really do is surf, e-mail and a bit of word processing, maybe watch the odd movie. Would a mac be over kill or are they really worth the extra in terms of trouble free computing?

How much you wanna spend?

If you're gonna buy a PC, FOR GOD'S SAKE make sure you either wait til you buy a new one with Windows 7 pre-installed (not long now), or even better get a retro-grade to XP Pro included. Vista is shite (in case you've not used it).

OSX is the Mac's selling point. It is a vastly superior Operating System (in my view) than any Windows OS, but you do pay for it because you can only run it on Apple Hardware (unless you're a very clever bugger and are happy writing kernel patches to make it run on a PC… But anyway!).

Mac's also posses something that is a relative unheard of in the computer world… A Resale Value! You pay more to begin with, but they retain probably half their initial value (so a £1000 computer would be still fetch £500) after 3 years. What PC is worth 50% of its initial value within 1 year, let alone 3? NONE!

Mac's are "nicer" to use by a long way, and for the less computer literate people that don't mind trying something different, you can't beat a Mac. You do need to be open minded though, cos if you're not you will get pissed off when you haven't got used to it within a couple of hours. Give it a week though and it'll feel totally natural to use.

Mac – without a doubt

Mac all the way. It's perfect for what you want out of it.

a pc isn't 'sensible' – its just cheaper than a mac

I'd never have a pc again having had a mac for 2 years

A mac isn't extravagant.

Check out Windows 7 if you can get a lappy with it on yet??, I'm running Ultimate and it's ace, possibly as good if not bettter than osx.

by sensible and extravagant, what I mean is for low level use like mine, is it worth paying 4 times more for a mac? Will it last me 4 times longer?

Check out Windows 7 if you can get a lappy with it on yet??, I'm running Ultimate and it's ace, possibly as good if not bettter than osx.

Errrr… It's a lot better than Vista, but it's not better than OSX, not by some stretch!

by sensible and extravagant, what I mean is for low level use like mine, is it worth paying 4 times more for a mac? Will it last me 4 times longer?

4 times the price? What Mac you looking at, and what PC? 1.5 times the price (like for like) yes, but 4 times the price not at all… You MUST compare like for like specs remember… Anyway…

Tell us more about your specific criteria for use. And also, what PC you're considering, and which Mac. Will be able to help out more then!

It'll allow you to be four times more smug. 😉

Pc I reckon for what you've listed of course it's a bit like bikes – you may not need to spend more but since when's that had anything to do with anything?

Well I had an ibook for 3 years now my mate uses it to surf/e-mail and it suits him just fine. He even does some music stuff on it and thats on a old G4.

Mac Mini might be worthwhile if you want to re use keyboard, mouse and monitor.

To be honest, I'm not too fussed about spec as pretty much any machine can do what I need to do. It needs to be a laptop so it can be "put away" and I don't fancy going smaller than a 15". Trouble is, they don't make low spec macs for less money so I was comparing a pc laptop that would do the job (about £400) and I guess 15" macs are about 3 times the price.

I'm neither a PC or Mac evangelist. I've used both extensively. I'd break it down this way.

The most basic macbook has a 13 inch screen and costs £750. It has a dedicated graphics card which you don't need. It does look fantastic though which may be a consideration if it's going to be 'furniture'. You won't have to worry so much about security with a Mac. You will pay for OS updates. As standard you get free telephone support for 90 days after which you pay.

For almost half that you can get a PC laptop with a 17 inch widescreen, more memory, and a bigger hard drive. You will have to be more security aware with a PC as most malicious software targets them rather than Macs. This means getting some anti-virus/malware software and a firewall in place, although this is best practice for any type of computer. OS updates are free. Most PC vendors will give you a year's telephone support.

As regards the operating systems, if you're used to OSX you'll think it's better/easier to use and the same goes for Windows. For me OSX ease of use over Windows is a myth.

There's nothing inherently wrong with Vista. Yes it's a bit slower than XP but it's a whole lot more secure. It is now a very mature OS. I've been running it for the last year without a peep.

Depends on your priorities but I'd get a PC. Pretty much any modern laptop will do what you want. A PC will do it for half the money compared to a Mac and will give you a 17" widescreen for your movies, although it will need a little bit more looking after.

Try a 13.3" MacBook out for size just to give it a go. They "seem" bigger in use than they actually are, primarily cos they've got as good a screen resolution as most 15" laptops. The 15" MacBookPro of course has slightly higher resolution again, but you definitely don't need a 15" MacBookPro for what you want… WAY too much money to invest.

If I were you, I'd get a white MacBook for £749 (or at least give one a good try) for your uses. A £400 PC laptop will be pretty basic, and have a low power processor and not much RAM in general. This might be alright for basic use for 12 months or so, but the Mac is a high enough spec (RAM and processor wise) to keep you going for some time yet (My MacBookPro I'm typing this on is coming up to 3 years old, and is still faster than most brand new laptops by some margin).

If you do decide to go for a PC though, make sure you get a Core 2 Duo processor rather than a Pentium Dual Core, the small price difference will be well worth it in the end. As will getting a computer with 4GB of RAM installed (though this is cheap and easy to change aftermarket anyway). And shy away from Vista in preference for either XP or Windows 7 when it has its full release.

Incidentally, Rockplough does make some interesting points above, but you DO NOT pay for OS updates with OSX, exactly the same as you don't with a Windows OS. You do however pay for a NEW OS should you want it (ie. upgrading from 10.5 to 10.6, exactly the same as you would if upgrading from Vista to Windows 7), so in this respect there's nothing in it.

I know Windows is awful. Everyone knows Windows is awful. Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it. OK, OK: I know other operating systems are available. But their advocates seem even creepier, snootier and more insistent than Mac owners. The harder they try to convince me, the more I'm repelled. To them, I'm a sheep. And they're right. I'm a helpless, stupid, lazy sheep. I'm also a masochist. And that's why I continue to use Windows – horrible Windows – even though I hate every second of it. It's grim, it's slow, everything's badly designed and nothing really works properly: using Windows is like living in a communist bloc nation circa 1981. And I wouldn't change it for the world, because I'm an abject bloody idiot and I hate myself, and this is what I deserve: to be sentenced to Windows for life.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/28/charlie-brooker-microsoft-mac-windows

food for thought, cheers all. Wife wants a mac, she uses them at work and "they look nice". I need a computer and I'd like some new bike bits (not sure what yet but there's always something).

On a Mac you get free OS updates. Fact. However, when a totally new version of the OS comes out, then you pay for it. The recent upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard cost around £25, I think. An update from Vista to Win 7 will also cost you. It's not free. When Vista was released there were a bunch of options, each of which cost quite a lot. My PowerBook is now six going on seven years old, and works just fine. I can no longer upgrade the OS 'cos it's a PowerPC processor, and updates now only run on Intel Macs, which also means that you can happily run any Windows flavour of OS on the Mac. Use Bootcamp to reboot into whichever OS you want, or get VMWare or Parallels for £50ish (or possibly thrown in as part of a deal), then you can have multiple OS running at the same time, which is great if you have legacy files from the PC you might want to continue using.

Have to respectfully disagree mboy. 😉

For extended viewing there's no substitute for screen real estate. The MacBook screen is very nice, but another 4 inches makes a world of difference (that's what she said anyway).

In terms of spec my comparison point was a Dell Inspiron 17 at £400. The Dell lacks a Core 2 Duo but beats the MacBook in RAM (2GB vs 3GB) and hard drive size (160GB vs 250GB). Going to £500 gets you an Inspiron 17 which beats the Mac in all three areas.

I think you do pay for OSX updates. Going from 10.5 to 10.6 is tantamount to a Windows service pack in terms of content. There's arguably nothing in Snow Leopard that you wouldn't find in a service pack and it's described by Apple themselves as a refinement of OSX.

Windows 7 is preferable over Vista, but not XP which cannot take full advantage of modern technologies and is far less secure.

Anyway I'm sure Onzadog has more than enough to base a decision on by now. 🙂

If you buy a PC of equal quality and spec to the Mac, it'll cost you about the same price, but it will not have the resale value.

I have just sold my old MacBook for half of what I paid for it 3 years ago, so the TOC is pretty good.

There's nothing wrong with having a good quality PC laptop with a modern version of Windows except the faff of keeping it protected, but the cheap ones are best used for keeping your table legs level.

I wouldn't want to lug a 17 inch screened laptop around personally. When looking at the price differences you should factor in the superb software that comes with a Mac. Garageband in particular is an amazing piece of software to get for free if you are in any way interested in making music.

Errrr… It's a lot better than Vista, but it's not better than OSX, not by some stretch!

OK, so how do I run all my windows apps on a Mac then – especially the ones for which there is no Mac alternative. To me, that makes the PC better. (Oh yes, that's it, spend twice as much on a Mac, then force it to run Windows too – marvellous!)

OK, so how do I run all my windows apps on a Mac then

As stated above by someone else, install a copy of Windows and run it through Bootcamp or buy VMWare.

especially the ones for which there is no Mac alternative

PLENTY of software has no PC alternative, so a lot of time a Mac is not just the preffered choice, it is the ONLY choice. Admittedly, mostly this is professional media or music production stuff, but it happens!

I havent even read the rest of the posts on this thread, get a mac, faultless mate.

IMHO, I can't be bothered with the Mac vs PC debate. They both do what they do; in some cases very well, in other cases less so.

Put the politics to one side and take a simple look at what you really want to use the machine for over the next 3-5yrs (if you plan on keeping it that long). By the sounds of it, nothing out of the ordinary. Hence an average Mac or PC should suffice.

If you want VFM, then look for second hand options – you could save a packet, especially on a PC/laptop.

As for manufacturers, there are loads of bad PC ones (in terms of quality, VFM, performance, reliability, upgradability, support, longevity, etc), but there are also some very very good ones. My preference is HP/Compaq – based on personal ownership plus having sold all types of kit into NHS over the years. Then again, certain machines from Dell and Fujitsu are equally good.

IMHO, there are a whole load of people out there who are anti-Gates/MS and don't even know the implication of what they're saying. They're just being sheep. Likewise there are loads of Mac evangelists who harp on about stability and aesthetics, etc.

Fair enough, if you need a machine to do a specific job, and that job happens to be "niche" or "specialist", then one may well be better than the other. But if all you needs to do is browse, do some WP, play some movies, etc, then open yourself to both sides of the coin. After all, a second hand (excellent condition) 1 yr old laptop for £350 is likely to do the job just as well as a similar spec Mac for perhaps twice the price.

The choice is yours …

SM

Just my

For bog standard web bimbling, email and the like, a mac, hands down, if you can afford one (or get a secondhand one).

It is less hassle and more secure, and you get to be an irritatingly smug git and wear black polo necks and square designery glasses. 😉

They are also solidly built, OSX really is very good for stability and user friendliness, and pretty much any common app you'll be wanting to use will either be available for the mac, or have a decent alternative.

If you are into gaming at all (doesn't sound like you are) then windows is the only choice really.

I have a windows laptop, which I use for the occasional game and browsing and stuff, because I couldn't afford a mac, and an old unix desktop for work stuff(programming), email and things like that.

For bog standard web bimbling, email and the like, a PC, hands down. Install a (free) antivirus, and you're done.

Like mboy said, you should probably wait for Windows 7 to come out, although Vista is nothing like as bad as people try to make out – I've been using it at home for over a year without problem.

I'm pretty much with ploughboy here.
To do what you need and entry level Dell laptop or similar will cost around £350 if you shop around, or get a Dell at the right time in their pricing cycle. An entry level mac, which means paying for stuff that you don't need will cost £750.
Screen area is important- I've got the previous gen white macbook, and do some development stuff on it- I had to lash out for an external monitor to get the desktop area I need. 15 + 17" laptops can be as cheap as 13 and 14" screens these days. Everything comes with a free win7 upgrade at the moment, and win7 seems pretty nice, though I'm still happy with xp.
OSX isn't intuitive imo if you're a long term windows user, it does take a bit of getting used to.
Trackpad is the best feature imo.
I've never thought about resale before, but on the whole I think that would tip me into buying a secondhand core2duo white macbook, if the screen size and resolution is suitable. You can always plug it into your tv or buy a monitor if you want.

Cheers guys,

If I go PC, I'll wait for windows 7 rather than something with an upgrade deal. I got caught out by that sort of thing years ago. My current machine came xp sp1 about a week before sp2 and I was told they'd do the upgrade foc. Would it work? Would it buggary. All these years later, (now on sp3) it almost works but it won't restart. I have to shut it down and then press the button. Not a major issue until it's ready for a clan up (which seems to be more and more often now)

Strange about your XP problems…. I find it as solid as a rock, never missed a beat even when running it on a pc! I run it through vmfusion on a Mac now and wouldn't look back!

MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC !!!

according to various industry 'experts' the macbook (plastic) is about to get a (possibly major) update in the next couple of months so it might be worth holding out to see what happens with this?

Also I'd strongly recommend getting a refurb one from the Apple Store if you're getting a mac. All the same software and guarantee etc, only you dont get the fancy box and the knowledge that no one else has touched your virgin bit of geek pron 🙂

My last 3 macs have been through the refurb store, and the only problem I had was replaced within 48 hours (faulty logic board, went tits up after a month) under warranty, no questions asked. You can usually look to save at least £100 off the price of a new mac, which makes the whole purchase much easier to justify.

I use a mac at home (so do my parents) and haven't had any bother with them. I use a PC at work which I'm constantly faffing with, and a media server at home (now on Win7, wihch is better but not up to OSX levels imho), if I could afford it (and work would let me) I'd never touch another PC again.

another great way to save on a mac is if you are or know any students or people that work at university or in higher education. I am lucky to be working at a university and ordered my last Mac book pro with the academic discount, saved about £500!!.

As has been mentioned before it comes down to a matter of personal preference and how much you want to spend. PCs do seem to have a habit of slowing down over time which is something that doesn't appear to affect Macs. PCs have more software available to them. I would also say that it is worth waiting for Windows 7 as it really is a step up on the previous offerings from MS. Braodly speaking Vista was rubbish although there are plenty of people who had a good experience with it.

Also be very wary of the Macs are secure myth. They are not. They are woefully insecure. They give the appearance of being more secure because until now they have been a small niche player in the corporate world – for a long time they were about 5% of personal computer sales. Also tended to be the preserve of the graphic designer / arty farty crowd. Consequently there was no interest from the naughty boys out there when much of the world was running Windows. So Windows was the big target. MS took major steps around 2002 to significantly revise the way their software was written to address security. Windows now is an incredibly secure platform by default for which you will still need to consider anti virus and anti malware software to enhance the protection you need from life on the Internet. Apple by contrast has never really done much about security – never really had to . However, as their market share has been rising and more people are using them the naughty boys are starting to look at them. Apple are starting to look at security in their code and protecting the user but it is all a looooong way behind where Windows is. Macs are not secure and Apple has a lot of work to do over the next few years. They have been lucky to get away with it so far and may yet still get away with it. But don't be fooled into thinking that they are secure / more secure than PCs. They are not. One example: The recent Black Hat conference had a session where someone demonstrated 15 hacks for Macs in 15 minutes. All of them serious.

Happy choosing. 🙂

MBoy, genuinely interested what software can't you get on a Windows other than FCP / Motion (which have Windows alternatives such as Avid or After Effects), Logic (which again has plenty of Windows alternatives) or Dolby Media Tools (which if I had the spare £20k for at work I could happily find a grand for an iMac)?

I work at a large media company which covers video production / online and offline editing / motion graphics and 3D / audio production / DVD and Blu-Ray authoring / web / print… and the only people who use Macs now are the Print guys, everybody else seems to have moved to or has always used Windows.

Go Mac and never look back.
We have both at home and guess which one gets all the use.
Got word/excel etc so not entirely reliant on keynote.

Much better operating system and very good customer service back up if required.

@Bikingcatastrophe

Windows now is an incredibly secure platform by default

You have to be kidding don't you? Yes, they have made some big strides forward, especially with the introduction of Vista's introduction of something akin to the Unix userspace/appspace distinction. I still wouldn't run anything remotely sensitive on a windows server.

Nothing is completely secure if it is online, and Apple do have to do quite a bit of work on improving the security of OSX, but the unix security model that underpins it is fundamentally more sound than the windows model (up to vista anyway, haven't looked into windows 7 much).

15 minutes for 15 hacks sounds bad, but what hacks are they, privilege escalation attacks, buffer underruns?

cheap notebook + Linux
all the niceness of a mac, and the good bits of windows (hard to admit, but it does have some) in an open source, Free OS.
w
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im with mr brooker though, my hatred for apple is based on pricks showing off on them.
its thoroughly put me off them (i-macs, i-phones, i-pods, i-houses, i-mapretnetiouspricks)
that and the price