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Self defence

119 posts & 51 voices | Started 6 months ago by HansRey | Latest reply from Earl

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HansRey - Member

Hi,

Me and two friends were waiting for a night bus on Friday. 15 natives attacked and chased, I'm now awaiting surgery on Tuesday to rebuild a finger joint. Not the most severe injury but it does mean that i can't work properly, ride, play bass, salibandy, etc. Looking back, it could have been a lot worse for all of us, which has shocked me quite a lot.

So, I should learn how to defend myself and stand my ground, incase it should happen again and I have nowhere to run to. It would also be useful to know how to defend against a group, seen as these sort of attacks are often involving a group.

I know of Judo, and Mui Thai (spelling?)... what do you recommend?

Posted 6 months ago #
mtb2020 - Member

I went on a self defence course at college, which was based around karate, but I've never really had to use it. But the way the current law stands, I'd be quite wary of getting in fights, because often the police book anyone in a fight, even if they didn't start it for assault, affray, possession of an offensive weapon etc. And the tariffs for such 'crimes' even if in self-defence can be high. So if you can diffuse the situation or walk away do that. If there's people's homes nearby, knock on the door and ask them to call the police, or to give you safe harbour - or flag down motorists to help you stop them. Use your mobile phone to take pictures of people and ring the police immediately - and to pre-empt trouble before it happens. The law isn't necessarily on your side. But if you've got no choice, pinning people's little fingers back hurts a lot, stamping on feet, grabbing their head and bringing it down in contact with your knee should stun them. Even if you're fighting for your life, you've got to be mindful not to do too much damage - and just enough to give you time to get away. We were told to just poke people in the eyes straight away, and then make a dash for it or knee them where it hurts and then run like hell.

Posted 6 months ago #
djglover - Member

Not a lot you can do when 15 turn up. Been there myself too. Intact it would probaby make it worse

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

The law is always on your side and you can use "reasonable" force to defend yourself - if the odds are against you like this the bar for what is reasonable would be set high.

However legging it and / or calling the police will always be better than trying to fight your way out if the odds are high like that.

Posted 6 months ago #
nosemineb - Member

judo, jujitsu or something like that should be available to you locally pop along and have a go. I do karate and jujitsu but if i had tried the latter first i wouldn't have bothered with learning karate. However my son enjoys going to karate and so we still learn it.
Karate is for attacking, Jujitsu is more defence then attack, well that's how i see it.
Judo is apparently very good but its not available near me that i know of.

Hope that helps all imo of course!!

Edit, like above prob better learning to run but sometimes a bit of confidence can go along way. However against 15, No chance! Thankfully ive never been in any situation like that so what do i know!

Posted 6 months ago #
mtb2020 - Member

@TandemJeremy - obviously you've not had a lot of contact with the police or seen many of the examples in the newspapers were people defending themselves got in to trouble more than the perpetrators.

Posted 6 months ago #
nosemineb - Member

I would imagine if there was cctv footage of 15 lads running after you anything you did as self defence would be taken lightly. You would hope anyway!
So what happened to the hand?? Lets hear more of the story..

Posted 6 months ago #
BruceWee - Member

Been doing karate most of my life and I wouldn't even think of trying to stand my ground if I was outnumbered 15 to 1. Simply no chance. Even 2 or 3 to 1, I wouldn't give anyone much chance if they were even half aware of how to fight and the only way to find that out is to actually fight them.

That said, I'm a firm believer that everyone should know how to defend themselves. Bear in mind though that taking a self defence course is worse than useless. A little knowledge can get you into serious trouble. Learning to defend yourself is a long term commitment that takes many years of training at least twice a week.

As far as what to do, try a few different ones and see what you enjoy since there's no point in trying to stick with it if you don't enjoy it. Saying that, I don't know if doing something where you are never going to get hit hard in the face is good. Getting hit in the face takes a lot of the fear out of it which will allow you relax (relatively) and to concentrate on defending yourself rather than stiffening up because you're worrying about the unknown sensation of being hit in the face or anywhere else for that matter.

Generally in karate the techniques were controlled but accidents happen so I'm well aware of what a hard hit to the face feels like and I think this lets me keep my cool in aggressive situations.

Posted 6 months ago #
yunki - Member

bruce wee +1

this sort of situation can be extremely dangerous if you haven't got enough street smarts to see you through.. trying to fight your way out is only ever going to make it worse.. life is not like the movies

if you can't front your way out or buy your way out then run..

Saying that, I remember my wee brother laughing at a gang of Leicestershire muggers at a cashpoint one evening before headbutting one and then cheerfully kicking another in the balls.. it was all very Francisco Begbie.. but again.. it was front that saw him through really.. and a very proactive and confident fighting style..

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

mtb2020 - Member

@TandemJeremy - obviously you've not had a lot of contact with the police or seen many of the examples in the newspapers were people defending themselves got in to trouble more than the perpetrators.

Actually had a fair bit of dealing with the police and I do understand the law.

find one example of this please
were people defending themselves got in to trouble more than the perpetrators.

Yo won't be able to as it never happens unless clearly unreasonable force is used like shooting the person in the back as they ran away or chasing them down the street and beating them unconscious with bats.

Its just utter tabloid rubbish to suggest you are not allowed to defend yourself using reasonable force

Posted 6 months ago #
IanMunro - Member

Interval training to build up your 400m times would seem more important than self-defence, as unprovoked attacks appear to be rarely one on one.
Hope the finger heals ok.

Posted 6 months ago #
mtb2020 - Member

I've had direct interaction with the police and was defending myself. Was going to be charged with affray and possession of an offensive weapon, but the charges were eventually dropped. The perpetrators just lied, and were believed. But I proved that some of their stories were totally false by some of my own recce work and spoke directly to the CPS who were far more understanding. Also in custody suites, the police are not all sweetness and light to many others they book and give people a good hiding for resisting arrest - I saw it first hand, and denied people the right to see a solicitor. The tabloid stories are just the tip of a very big iceberg!!

Posted 6 months ago #
yunki - Member

give people a good hiding for resisting arrest

LOL.. it's not the 70s..

Was going to be charged with affray and possession of an offensive weapon

I think you've shot yourself in the foot with that argument..!

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

so mtb2020 - you used a weapon in self defense but was not charged with anything let alone convicted. My point made.

Posted 6 months ago #
mtb2020 - Member

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

So you threatened them with a weapon - that a serious offence in its self.

But the police weren't on my side
The police will allways have to investigate such incidents seriously and impartially. Of course they gave you a hard time if you had a weapon - I would expect nothing less from them

The fact you admit to waving a weapon around and did not get prosecuted shows my point is correct. Bladed weapon?

Can you find me

many of the examples in the newspapers were people defending themselves got in to trouble more than the perpetrators.

Posted 6 months ago #
hora - Member

I think that was an awful (but) rare event so no. After all unless you get attacked fairly often - i.e. annually I don't see a point plus would you be able to become super-hard to fight? Pointless. I wouldn't bother with any self-defence. The only self defence that would actually work (and quicker) is boxing.

Hope your finger improves/gets better quick

Posted 6 months ago #
mtb2020 - Member

Posted 6 months ago #
mtb2020 - Member

Posted 6 months ago #
transapp - Member

Most of the above is good advice (TJ - you're trolling again. Bored?)
. Learning to defend yourself will also make you more aware, possibly to the extent that you don't get into the trouble to start with.
Once you've got to a fairly profficient level, you should be able to defend against one, maybe 2 people (as long as luck's on your side) however against 15? Run. and keep running! Iv'e trained in martial arts (TKD, BJJ, KB) for years and I certainly would run!

Posted 6 months ago #
wrecker - Member

The only self defence that would actually work (and quicker) is boxing.

Bollocks. Muay Thai is just as effective. Krav Maga and MMA even more so. You can't box when your on the floor.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Not trolling transapp - fed up with this stupid myth created by the tabloids that you are not allowed to defend yourself.

The law says that you can use reasonable force in self-defence or to protect another person in your property. The definition of ‘reasonable force' depends on what the situation is and it may be decided in court after the event.

However, if you feel in danger and you think that using force might help you, then don't be afraid to do so – always think of your own wellbeing first.

http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/crime-prevention/helping-prevent-crime/-and-property/self-defence

and the law in more detail

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/

Posted 6 months ago #
hora - Member

Muay Thai is just as effective. Krav Maga and MMA even more so. You can't box when your on the floor.

Without getting into an escalation of 'who is best' etc I'd personally use my approach which is talk your way out of something. Doesn't work against numbers or rare situations though.

For those I recommend a running track course.

Otherwise straight forward boxing. Your not doing it to be 'mental hard as nails'. After all, how many fights do you find yourself in over say decades of life?

Lets not forget if you do start fighting back with your 'thai boxing' thing you have a good chance of fighting a nutter. Those rare people who will soak up punches/kicks and will bloody bury you. I went toe to toe outside a nightclub with a nutter and punched him over a low wall (with a 6ft drop to paving the otherside). He landed headfirst, got back up and laughed (with a huge growing lump on his head).

Take it as a life experience (and move on).

Posted 6 months ago #
Tat Wink - Member

I do krav maga and almost had to use at fireworks on saturday as a group of chavs pushed into the queue for the bus and pushed my wife and stuck a sparkler towards my daughters face.

Would have loved to teach them a lesson but thought better of it - i got the police instead who kicked them off the bus and gave them a bollockin!

Posted 6 months ago #
muppetWrangler - Member

The best form of defence against 15 would be athletics training. It ain't TV and you won't take on 15 and come away unhurt.

Posted 6 months ago #
BruceWee - Member

I can't tell you how many discussions I've been dragged into about 'which martial art is best', normally with second year university students who had never trained and never been in any kind of fight. I started off recommending that they tried as many as possible and found what worked well for them based on body type, mentality, what they enjoyed, etc.

After that I found that the best thing to say was 'Yes, Muay Thai/TKD/Karate/Kung Fu/BJJ/Yoga/Capoeira/Feng Shui is obviously the most effective martial art. I'll switch to that on Monday.'

Posted 6 months ago #
wrecker - Member

Hora, you have as much chance of fighting a nutter if you take a boxing or a sumo stance. The person in front of you is fairly irrelevant to what you are trying to do. Its a case of do whatever you have to (IF you have to) quickly and run like a bastard, not throw a 9 punch combo and stroll away the victor. Krav Maga would be my recommendation. It's designed to be defensive but robust and isn't choreographed like many Martial arts felt (to me). The training is also nails.

Posted 6 months ago #
hora - Member

The best form of defence against 15 would be athletics training. It ain't TV and you won't take on 15 and come away unhurt.

Amen. Unless you are a Movie actor.

Posted 6 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

TJ - the problem, as so often with the law, is not the law in itself, but its application.

Like it or not - the majority of fair minded folk don't believe that being arrested, DNA swabbed, interviewed, released on bail and held in limbo for a period of weeks, recalled, charged and left with the threat of prosecution hanging over them for several months before the CPS drop charges (because no offence was committed in the first place) is the correct or fair way for the law to process a self defence case.

What people object to is being treated as an offender where the law is supposed to be on their side, regardless of the fact that they are eventually cleared.

Posted 6 months ago #
avdave2 - Member

Just as an ugly mate will always make you look better so a slower mate will always be useful when you need to run away.

Posted 6 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

You're not bruce lee or chuck norris - you need to take up RLF it's the only way to survive those odds.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Zulu - you actually have examples or is it just made up tabloid tosh?

Posted 6 months ago #
flow - Member

"Self defense" is bullcrap.

Take up something like Muay Thai, you spar and learn what its like to actually be hit, and your whole body is a weapon. It is also amazing for fitness and conditioning.

http://www.ukwarriorsgym.com/

This is where I used to go, coach is a top bloke, also trains the ISKA England squad.

They have a gyms in Herne Bay, Eltham and Swinley.

I will be back when I am better, I loved it.

Boxing is fine in the ring fighting another boxer, but way to restrictive in a real fight.

Posted 6 months ago #
hora - Member

Well in a real fight you go straight for the throat and throttle the ****

Posted 6 months ago #
flow - Member

Or Thai clinch, 4 or 5 knees to the face, game over needing reconstructive surgery.

Posted 6 months ago #

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