Agree with Rich S after spending a bit of time in claims and doing some CII exams.

IIRC Sheila’s Wheels are part of the EUI group (Elephant, Admiral etc) who are experts at avoiding claims. Google insurance complaints and they are the first companies to come up.

Our rear engined car was hit in the back whilst stationary at a roundabout. First it was a write-off. Then 4 weeks later it turned up ‘repaired’. Actually all they had done was put a new bumper on over the engine damage (cracked turbo manifold). The odd note of the engine was the giveaway. The company then refused to repair due to it ‘being a well known fault’. So well known that 8 dealers hadn’t heard of it and the ins co. refused to name their source. Worringly, they also didn’t seem the slightest bit bothered about being taken to the ombudsman.

Interesting thing about insurance – if you’d bought a £2.99 handlebar and it failed in the first week of use, someone would be on here preaching “buy cheap, buy twice”.

Sheila’s Wheels are esure (HBOS group) IIRC…

So if you borrow a bike it’s best to make out a bill of sale?

How about contacting GT?

£16K for charity on one of their bikes is good PR and they may be convinced to help – if its a frame at cost rather than retail it’s not cost them anything and if you pitch the story right to them they may see it as a good piece of marketing – I’m sure you’d be on here saying how great GT have been?

Worth the cost of a phone call or email.

Badger

Hadn’t thought of contacting GT, a kind soul has already offered a Zaskar frame as a starting point (which is pretty damn awesome) but will at least drop GT a line to see what happens.

Had a quick skim through the thread but can’t see all these CII types mentioning insurable interest here yet – as in the Marine Insurance Act 1906 – unless you are prejudiced by the loss, you can’t insure it – not your bike, not your loss, not covered by your policy.

*ex-claims manager, for reputable companies only. But can no longer afford to insure his bikes 🙁

“IIRC Sheila’s Wheels are part of the EUI group (Elephant, Admiral etc”

Sheila’s Wheels have nothing to do with EUI.

unless you are prejudiced by the loss

interesting, so if someone lends you a bike and inferes the responsibility for it’s wellbeing is with you, it gets nicked, you have to pay for a replacement, are you not prejudiced?

Is there a “legally” binding agreement that says you must pay for any loss? If yes, then it is covered, if you only feel a moral obligation to pay, that is not covered.

You may feel that your insurance company has a moral obligation, but the law of contract which your policy is based on does not. Same thing, different perspectives.

Good insurers pay valid claims, and charge premiums to cover those costs.

I don’t feel they have a moral obligation, I’d just like to find a legitimate way to minimise the impact of having to replace the bike, it’s not unreasonable to at least explore all the possibilities, if nothing else I have a better understanding of how these things all work 🙂

Swadey, try reading up a few posts. Also, i’m surprised at your second post. You’re mixing your arguments up between an individual’s obligation to care for 3rd party property in their care and control and a non existent point about an insurer’s moral obligation to pay out. Totally different points and one of them is most definitely insurable!

Rich s

Just thought i would comment that its nice to see someone passing comment who actually knows his stuff. Its about 15yrs since i started studying ACII but tbh i lost interest and got out of it.

I kinda understand your comments but insurable interest is a bit vague when it comes to something that is loaned to someone else. Surely if , as you say they can prove their interest, then it should then be notified to the insrance company to have valid cover.

Just seen swadeys comment (I think he did the same as me and didnt read back enough).

Is this an insurance claims AGM or something. I used to be a claims handler for a multinational broker. Hated every god damn minute of it, except for the monthly trips to London which at the age of 18 were quite an eye opener.

TLH. I’m not acii but work in the industry and care about what i do!

It’s probably easier to think about this in context. Say you’re out on a ride and you lend your bike to a mate for a quick test ride. He jumps off a cliff and snaps the frame. The bike is not his. There has been no contract between you to say he must replace it. He could therefore hand it back and walk away, agreed?

So, you would take action against him as your bike was in his care and control and you have suffered financial loss. Because that situation is probably enforceable at law, his household insurance policy may respond and pay out. Your own policy may even pay out and opt to recover money from him/his insurers. This is subrogation.

The point has been made a few times in this thread about quality and value for money, sadly most marketing is around saving money at the time of purchase, not looking at what cover you need or the likelihood that the insurer will pay out 🙁

I’m typing this on my phone which makes it hard to edit so apologies if this is a little brief. I will check back tomorrow if you want to know more.

insurable interest Wikipedia which has quite a good first paragraph.

Now, if I’m out riding with a group of people I have an insurable interest in my bike but no one elses – I will suffer no financial loss if they crash/have it stolen. However, IMO, if I have borrowed a bike and am using that then I have an insurable interest in that bike as it’s in my control and I’m responsible for it – if it’s stolen then I can face a financial loss. It’s the same if you hire a car. I don’t think you need to have anything formal in place.

But, now comes the tricky bit and without reading the policy wording(s) it’s difficult to give a definitive answer. Your policy might cover you for “your possessions” while away from the house which obviously negates you borrowing something off someone and automatically having it covered but it might cover items “you are responsible for”. But, you could insure the bike you’ve borrowed as you have an insurable interest in it – ie. you could specify it on your policy and have cover but in the above example you couldn’t specify a friends bike that they were riding.

I would suggest …

your friend who borrowed the bike “might” be covered under their household policy as they have an insurable interest

the person who owns the bike “might” be covered under their policy but if their insurer pays up then they might claim off your friend who borrowed the bike as they were in charge at the time.

EDIT – I think this corresponds with the above post which got in first as I was typing this up !!!!

So if I get the gist of what Richs says; if the owner of the bicycle makes a claim against the person who borrowed the bike to recover his property, then the insurance can kick into action?

Thanks Rich. Just remembered why i got out of insurance. I am already bored (Not by you btw).

not quite. If an insurer pays a claim then they look to see if they can recover their costs off someone. In this case the owner claims off his insurance. They pay. Then the insurance company goes after the person who was riding the bike to get their money back.

Just remembered why I got out of insurance. I am already bored

I find it a really interesting subject. Especially at a crowded bar. Start talking to someone about holidays, enquire if they have travel insurance and if they don’t then go on about how they need it as soon as they’ve booked the holiday. You’ll soon find people make way for you and you’re at the front of the bar being served !!!!!

Thank **** i didn’t have to type another answer out. Ta daveGr!

Sad thing is TLH, i find liability absolutely fascinating… Shoot me now 😉