I want to buy a set of new brakes for enduro and light dh use.
Saints seem to be amazing from a lot of reviews i read.
I found, for the same price, a pair of the new 2017 guide rsc with the S4 caliper.

What would you buy?

I am really tempted for the guides, cause it seems they provide better modulation than the saints, but i am a bit concerned of the issues that read in multiple forums (sticky lever) and the reliability.

Cheers!

High end Shimano brakes seem really hit and miss at the moment you may have a great set like my XTRs which are faultless or you may get a set where the bite point goes walkies(happens to saints and XTRs)

I don’t really like the guide brakes though they aren’t bad. It’s worth having a look at Magura MT5s.

Saints on both bikes here, DH and trail.

Never boiled a set in the Alps, never felt under braked, easy to bleed, plentiful supply of pads etc, great adjustability regarding lever reach too.

Seals around the pistons is probably the weak spot on them though.. One of my calipers went back under warranty recently, fingers crossed. It had just turned 2 years old.

Love the guide mount, with the reverb lever though.

Never had saints, but I have had a fair few sets of XT’s and Guides are considerably better in every way.

Im rapidly falling out of love with shimano brakes, i love the feel and power but they just done seem reliable.

In 3 years i have had a front and rear xtr fail, the last time the xtr failed was JUST inside warranty, to there credit i was given a full refund on the original brake as they could not supply another.

I decided at that point to ”upgrade to saints, i found that on most of my riding they were not consistent enough as i wasnt getting the heat into them so decided to change pads, at which point i discovered that 2 pistons wouldn’t return after a bit of research it seems cracking the pistons in saints is a common practice, on a brake thats 4 months old im starting to wish i went for the hopes instead.

Another Guide convert from Shimano here.

Various sets of XTR & Saint’s with inconsistent bite points & general not liking the way the servowave stuff works.

Gradually went from one bike to Guide RSC’s, to everything with them. Never thought I would be positive about SRAM brakes 🙂

Not the exact comparison you wanted, but I currently have a zee one end and guide rs the other.

They feel surprisingly similar with plenty of modulation and power.

One of the guides was broken from new and I’m going to put it on when I get it back, they just feel a little bit nicer than the zees.

Saints and Zees here they are a bit mental tbh

Not denying some folk have probs but mine have been absolutely insane especially after a DIY killer bleed

They feel like normal brakes up to a point and then another brake appears and hauls you up like a branch through the spokes. Light lever action means less fatigue

Huge Shimano brake fan here, I have the new XT on my FS and was running Saint on my hardtail up until a month ago.

Then I decided that the Saints on the HT were overkill and would fetch a pretty penny on eBay and I’d just make do with the current Deore (615?)….so I did just that, got nearly £150 for my now second hand Saints and bought a brand new set of M615s for £75….fitted them, no bleed required and the vendor had already cut the hoses to the right ballpark length….went off for a ride expecting to be underwhelmed after a few years on Saint.

To my surprise they were bloody brilliant!…lovely sharp bite, good power building to huge power the more I squeezed the lever until eventually locking out and skidding was easily achieved….all with one finger.
Phenomenal brakes.
I know the four pot Saints put one pair of its pistons on the rotor momentarily before the other pair for increased feel and modulation but it’s not worth it, you can achieve the same with two pot calipers if you’re not heavy handed and I find the immediacy of the bite from Deore, XT etc far more reassuring.

I’d be interested to try Zee brakes as Dirt magazine reckoned they were better than Saint but for now I’m over the expensive brake thing when a £75 set of Deores are as good as anything I’ve ever used….and I include a pair of Hope and a couple of sets of Sram brakes in that group.

On Pinkbike at the moment there is a video with Brett Tippie checking out all the bikes being used at Rampage, virtually all of them are on Shimano brakes….make of that what you will.

My guides are way better than my Saints. The Saints suffer from random lever behaviour and need bled a lot. The Guides have been absolutely faultless and haven’t needed bled in a year.

On Pinkbike at the moment there is a video with Brett Tippie checking out all the bikes being used at Rampage, virtually all of them are on Shimano brakes….make of that what you will.

What, Shimano might, per chance sponsor most of the riders?

Got a new set of Guide RSCs with all fittings been taken off a 2017 S Works Enduro 29r in the next couple of weeks if anyone is interested. Only removing as all our bikes are standardized on one type of brake

A friends saints have the random bite point thing, I had SLX brakes that did the same but picked up some Zees which have been pretty decent for me.. Not used the Guides bit would give them a try, however it seems a lot of racers use the old codes still??

Guides , coming from XT and saints

This is how my recent brake history has gone, best described as inconsistent

XT – bullet proof
SLX – wondering bite point, warrantied then it happened again
Zee – came on a new bike, thought they rear wasn’t bled properly but it turns out they also wonder. Nice brakes when behaving though
RSC – good brakes, easier to bleed than old models. Reach adjuster washer can wear out though meaning that the reach can self-adjust (and they dont move slowly). Fixed with locitite but then you’ve got an issue if you do need to move them (e.g. For bleeding) and I wouldn’t like to put a lot of force on the adjuster

Tracey – Member
Got a new set of Guide RSCs with all fittings been taken off a 2017 S Works Enduro 29r in the next couple of weeks if anyone is interested. Only removing as all our bikes are standardized on one type of brake

Hi Tracey, I’d be interested. I’m doing exactly the same thing regarding standardising but with RSC’s.

Chris

YGM

My XT brakes are similarly awesome and reliable whereas the Saints are very random. Always interesting when you’re trying to slow down from 40mph in the alps and the lever goes straight to the bars on the first pull. Need to flick the lever a couple of times to get the bite point back.

There was a big thread about it on Pinkbike or MTBR and the consensus seemed to be the Zee lever works better with the Saint caliper. Something to do with the volume of fluid in the system and apparently the Zee lever holds more fluid. that means you’d lose the tool free reach adjust though.

Tracey

Would also be interested in the Guide’s…

Another Guide convert from Shimano here.
Various sets of XTR & Saint’s with inconsistent bite points & general not liking the way the servowave stuff works.
Gradually went from one bike to Guide RSC’s, to everything with them. Never thought I would be positive about SRAM brakes

What Hob Nob said… Though I’m also very tempted to go to Hope, but I have found the Guides to be excellent brakes (well RS level and above, the cheaper R’s don’t have as much power or modulation and the levers aren’t as reliable).

bringing the money factor into the game, which way would you go?

final pricing findings:

hope tech e4 – no rotors -> 270€
2017 sram guide rsc – no rotors -> 260€
saints – no rotors -> 235€
zees with rotors RT86 – not finned pads -> 240€

Im rapidly falling out of love with shimano brakes, i love the feel and power but they just done seem reliable

Same here. I’ve been a massive fan of their brakes since the original XT four pots. The new ones seem very very hit and miss – of the ones I’ve had, the Deore’s were the most reliable and easiest to get a good bleed. My XT’s were never right despite being returned, my Zees were pretty good and my XTR’s a total pain in the bum.

I’ve since moved onto Guide RSC’s on both bikes and am very happy – the power is much more progressive and I love the way my shifter and Reverb lever all integrate. They’ve handled be dragging them at Stiniog and Revo a few times this year.

I’ve had a demo bike with M8000 brakes for two weeks and they really made me appreciate the Guides – loads of initial power but nothing more to come.

Do you need rotors?

Assuming not, probably Hope. Good performance, best backup by miles

The rsc has much stopping power for dh use?
the hope e4 is in the same league as the rsc?

I’ve had M785, Guide RSC and Saints.

After 1 week in the alps with RSC’s I will never touch them again. A friend of mine who is very fast (KOM on one of the Les Arcs runs this year) managed to fade out his Guide Ultimates, a day after telling me how great they were.

Oh I see. Ridemonkey not give a good enough answer 😉

Where have you seen those prices?

Currently after a new set of brakes

Guide rsc, I’ve used both and guides win for me, only the rsc though not the lower spec versions.
Though tbh as a bike tart I’d pick whichever matched the shifters so i could have them on the same mount. I’ve got new xt on the hard tail purely because I don’t like sram shifters on the ht as they aren’t 2 way. Modern brakes are all pretty good, there’s not really a huge difference between them imo.

my experience of them are

hope M4…constant fettling from day one, always having to centre the pads and play about to get a decent lever feel, and they failed in the alps this year. would never buy again.

guide rsc…been faultless and I like the lever feel they’ve done 2 weeks in the alps this year with no problems…would buy again.

Zee…..have these on my dh and they’re amazing, great power and feel..
would buy again…

Guide RSC on the fatty – happy 😀

After 1 week in the alps with RSC’s I will never touch them again. A friend of mine who is very fast (KOM on one of the Les Arcs runs this year) managed to fade out his Guide Ultimates, a day after telling me how great they were.

Now i’m really confused, as I have a few KOM’s in Les Arcs (apparently important?!) yet my RSC’s are fine 🙂

They survived 2 weeks in the Alps with no issues this summer.

It’s a shame brakes don’t just work.
Guide RSCs came with my bike. I then spent a week in the alps not being able to stop on some runs and stopping fine on others. As soon as I got back I swapped them out for XTRs.
Then I got the wandering lever on the XTRs, so I warrantied them and the new ones have been excellent.
I had deores on the other bike and they were superb.
It seems to be a bit of a lottery

FWIW, the ‘bleeding edge’ system used on the new Guide S4 caliper is very good. Just a bit annoying you have to buy the tool separately and they’ve been hard to come by. Otherwise though I’m very pleased with the RSCs.

so confusing!!!!!
i really want to pull the trigger for the rsc2017 with the s4 caliper, but it seems they have fading and consistency problems.

After 1 week in the alps with RSC’s I will never touch them again

Why not? Or is it because your mate had a problem? If that’s the case you’ll struggle to find any brakes to use!

What are you on about. Most posts have proffered the RSC as a top choice.

Given that you haven’t actually posted in this thread until now, you’re going to have to help out with who that comment was aimed at?

Are you hoping to find a brake that nobody on the internet has ever had any problems with?

Just get either of them, you’re unlikely to die (very soon).

ooops, for the non-mind readers twas “Freeriding” my comment pointed to. The point being, you’ll be lucky to get 100% approval on an items performance. The bigger percentage is your best bet.

Why not? Or is it because your mate had a problem? If that’s the case you’ll struggle to find any brakes to use!

Nope, I used RSC’s last year and suffered chronic fade.

This year I used Saints and had no problems at all. This year my mate had Ultimates, and suffered fade.

Re the comment about the KOM – it was to backup that he isn’t a crappy rider and hammering the brakes every corner – if you drag a brake down a mountain, you’ll probably fade it irrespective of model etc.

I run Saint calipers, with XTR levers and asymmetric pads (resin one side, metal the other)

But then i’ve always been a bit mixed up……. 😆