I seem to find a prolonged stint in the saddle a right pain in the mens bits . I've tried a few saddles , wtb sdg and fizik tilting up , down back and forth etc . Any advice for a decent saddle to stop the numbing and discomfort ?

Shorts, have you looked at your shorts?

I might have dreamt this, but I think even the great Mercx had a problem that was cured by the right shorts.

Usually people would say "grow a pair" but maybe it's the other way round Only real wisdom I've found is that you can never tell what's going to be comfy til you ride on it, my Charge Knife (well, Knifes now) look like torture devices and have almost no padding but they just fit me perfectly so it works, frinstance. Just replaced the big comfy sofa saddle on my commuter with a knife as well and it's so much nicer.

I have some alutra padded under shorts and endura ones , might go back to a bel air and try some different undershorts , any recommendations ?