So, being unfit and having been told to “exercise like a normal person” by a medic, I’ve decided to try my hand at some running. started the couch to 5k the other night.

By the end of the 5 minute walking warm-up, the muscles down the outside of my shins were in agony – effectively a feeling of cramp. I’ve experienced this before many years ago, but put it down to running too had without a warm up.

Googling suggests it could be shinsplints of compartment syndrome. Symptoms look like the latter, but I thought that was an overuse injury?

Any help?

You got shin splints from 5 minutes walking? or was there more involved?

http://running.about.com/od/runningforbeginners/ss/runningmistakes_3.htm

This was my problem, albeit when I was running, not walking/warming up – could be same for you? I don’t bother with a walking warm up, just run slowly for first five minutes, and concentrate on my form, making sure I’m nice and loose/relaxed.

There’s lots of good stuff on the web about proper running form. Worth looking into, especially if you’re just starting out – avoid developing bad habits now.

Google also suggests that you have Ebola.

if 5mins walking gives you pain, i agree with the medic, you need to do some exercise like a normal person.

(perhaps start with stretching for the remote control, work up to leaving the jaffa cakes in the kitchen and fetching a maximum of three at a time. 🙂 )

you know when it says consult your GP before embarking on any exercise plan – i think that might apply to you.

running slowly to warm up is bad for shin splints – the shock on your legs/muscles is more than when you are running normally, so do a little stretching (without pain), then maybe walk a little and then run.

this advice is from this book:

The Stark Reality of Stretching

although there is now a newer version (which I am just about to order…):

The Stark Reality of Stretching

Actually I would stick to walking and then walking quickly and building up a good distance. It is surprising how good walking is for you and your legs – especially if you start to stretch out your stride.

Running slowly/badly just bashes you around.

If you are really unfit I would go the path of walking, walking fast/distance, cycling/spinning up gradients out of saddle, running.

The cycling bit gets your legs in shape so when you then run you are a lot more ‘bouncy’ and the running is more enjoyable/beneficial and less of a chore.

I have just had my appendix out and that is basically my recovery plan.

Cheers all. Even Soobalias.

You got shin splints from 5 minutes walking?

Yep. I do wonder if it’s the trainers I have – massive thick heel seemed to make me walk weirdly. Are there any running shoes that aren’t so built up at the back?

For info: used to do a lot on the bike (200 miles a week). Have spent the last 9 months investigating heart issues. Concluded that I have none, but now I’ve lost loads of fitness. I used to be a hockey player, so used to run (wearing hockey trainers – different shape from running shoes, it seems). I can get this cramp sometimes if I’m walking too fast on a hard surface and wearing shoes with a heel.

The running bit was fine – much less painful than the walking, but still pretty bad.

Yep. I do wonder if it’s the trainers I have – massive thick heel seemed to make me walk weirdly. Are there any running shoes that aren’t so built up at the back?

Merrell Trail Glove. Cured all foot pain/discomfort for me. Great for running off-road as well, which I 100% recommend – much less shocks on the body than running on tarmac.

Merrell Trail Glove. Cured all foot pain/discomfort for me. Great for running off-road as well, which I 100% recommend – much less shocks on the body than running on tarmac.

For fear of taking this into what I understand is a contentious subject (barefoot running), what do these feel like compared with “normal” running shoes?

For now, I need to run where I have the time and opportunity. This means on the pavements under the sodium lights after work, though in my mind’s eye I see myself running across the fields at home. Well, given the rain, make that swimming across the fields….

…and wearing shoes with a heel

sooo tempting.

piss taking aside, what about eliminate the trainers totally for starters, i dont recommend barefoot running outside for a variety of reasons, but no reason why you cant jog on the spot in the house to warm up, even if only to identify if you can still get that pain barefoot.

barefoot running, vibram 5fingers, expensive shoe shop for gait analysis, physio…… possibilities are endless, so start simple and cheap.

EDIT: lets not go there

For fear of taking this into what I understand is a contentious subject (barefoot running), what do these feel like compared with “normal” running shoes?

Difficult to answer without it being contentious too, but I’d say they feel like say a hard tail / SS bike compared to a full-suss.

For fear of taking this into what I understand is a contentious subject (barefoot running), what do these feel like compared with “normal” running shoes?

For me: much better. I can actually feel the trail underneath me (kind of like thin bar tape on drops vs. gel tape, or thin gloves vs chunky winter mittens). Plus they are very light which I think is important. But the biggest benefit as I said was the elimination of discomfort/pain. YMMV of course, but I would definitely recommend trying some!

For now, I need to run where I have the time and opportunity.

I hear that, but even in cities, green spaces are everywhere! I looked on Google Maps and found a massive grass field 5 mins walk (perfect warmup time!) from my work which I run around at lunchtime. Had no idea it was there before looking on google despite having worked there for a couple of years.

I wear merrel barefeet shoes most of the time when not running, I used to have lots of problem with tight calf and achilles on my right leg, this certainly helped. I also started a stretching regime, I did it every night for a month or so, now I have achieved a bit more flexibility I just do it once or twice a week. If I stop the stretching and wear “normal” shoes I can feel the old problems coming back quite quickly.

For running I use saucony kinvara and mirage, which have cushioning but a low heel to forefoot drop.

It all helped me, and I am actually now starting to enjoy my running. Some think “barefoot” is a catch all cure for everyone, I think its far from that but some aspects can be useful, but the only way to find out is to give it a try.

…compartment syndrome

I have this and it’s an arse. It can be triggered randomly.

Mine’s on the inside of my shins though (Flexor Digitorum IIRC)…

I wear merrel barefeet shoes most of the time when not running

I have thought about doing this, shame they are 5x the price of the crappy sports direct trainers I wear most of the time! They do some smart versions now (black/brown leather) which I think you could just about get away with on formal occasions too!

Yeah its the leather ones I have, I can wear them to work and needing size 49/50 shoes they aren’t that much more expensive than the other alternatives for me.

Get yourself to a good sports shop (if you live in Hampshire, Alexandra Sports near Portsmouth is good) have them conduct a gait analysis and talk to them about your ambitions and difficulties.
I’m a serial half and full marathon runner and I wouldn’t recommend barefeet style shoes to someone who is just starting out.

vibram five-fingers are taking things a bit far, one day you may find you like them, but i suggest ignoring them for now.

if you want to run on pavemments, in simple cheap shoes, that don’t have a massive/weird lump of rubber under the heel, how about these:

that’s right, they’re plimsoles/plimsolls, available on ebay for a fiver.

link to ebay

i can confirm that you can run 5k in shoes like these – comfortably.

…I wouldn’t recommend barefeet style shoes to someone who is just starting out…

why not? – they’re a ‘blank slate’, and the nature of their ‘juststartingoutnessocity’ will mean they won’t be running very far or fast.

the muscles at the front of the shin don’t seem well designed for shock-absorbing duties, heel-strike running is a good way to hurt them.

here’s a nice little video which makes it look easy:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=787hU5R79JY[/video]

Am going to a running shop near work (Runners Need, Trafford Centre). Will have a look there.

Of course, when I go out tonight guaranteed the problem won’t return..!

…I wouldn’t recommend barefeet style shoes to someone who is just starting out

On that note, how do runners that over-pronate find barefoot shoes? I have orthotics and have had gait analysis, and while the idea of barefoot shoes are really appealing, I could see them being a short-cut to injury (unless I ran on the balls of my feet :?).

I hear that, but even in cities, green spaces are everywhere!

Industrial estate outside Salford. There is green space – the Manchester Ship canal. Otherwise, it’s all pavement….

On that note, how do runners that over-pronate find barefoot shoes?

You are meant to run on your forefoot.

Even ignoring the barefoot thing, most people overstride and have too low a cadence. It seems that natural runners have a higher cadence, and then increase stride with speed, where as less natural runners tend to over stride then try to increase cadence to increase speed. There is a surprising amount of technique in running, which I used to dismiss as nonsense, and you have to be a bit careful what you adopt and don’t, but it is worth investigating if like me you are very very far from being a naturally good runner.

Adopting the low heel to forefoot drop in running shoes helped pull other bits of technique together for me. I used to wear supportive shoes for overpronation as well.

…I wouldn’t recommend barefeet style shoes to someone who is just starting out…

why not? – they’re a ‘blank slate’, and the nature of their ‘juststartingoutnessocity’ will mean they won’t be running very far or fast.
Yes, agree 100%. The only evidence I’ve seen of “barefoot” shoes causing injury is when people who run already change to them and do too much too soon. For a new runner I would absolutely recommend trying them. You should be progressing very slowly anyway being new. This is exactly what I did (C25k) with no injuries whatsover.

Am going to a running shop near work (Runners Need, Trafford Centre). Will have a look there.

I would be wary about actually buying shoes based on gait analysis (which is what the shop want you to do of course). Yes it might be handy to identify any problem with your running form, but then you want to work on correcting that rather than buying shoes to “mask” the problem, i.e. treating the symptom rather than the cause

I would be wary about actually buying shoes based on gait analysis (which is what the shop want you to do of course). Yes it might be handy to identify any problem with your running form, but then you want to work on correcting that rather than buying shoes to “mask” the problem, i.e. treating the symptom rather than the cause

Noted. Appreciate that.

I’ll make some time and go and look without forcing myself to consider buying anything, whatever the analysis.

On that note, how do runners that over-pronate find barefoot shoes? I have orthotics and have had gait analysis, and while the idea of barefoot shoes are really appealing, I could see them being a short-cut to injury (unless I ran on the balls of my feet :?).

I’m moving from the typical motion-control shoes to barefoot (in my case, Merrel Trails), and so far so good. I’m taking it real easy – first a 10 min run, then adding 5min/week. It seems to be working, I’m up to 25min now with no problems. I’m still running with “normal” shoes, I plan on switching the shorter runs to the Trails in a couple of weeks, ideally going 100% sometime around the end of October. Ish 🙂

It’s quite a different sensation running – you have to run lighter, with faster strides, or it hurts. You also notice the trail a lot more, the barefoot-running tips about keeping you head up is ideal on a track, but on a trail you’ll want to keep an eye out for stones! Not sure what they’ll be like in winter, I don’t usually suffer from cold feet running, but then I’ve not tried with shoes so thin.

I think if I were to go back to when I started running with what I know now I’d probably have gone with this kind of shoes, certainly I’ve had a fair few injuries that “quality” shoes haven’t saved me from…

Not sure what they’ll be like in winter,

I started running last winter when there was snow on the ground. They were great! I always wear them with a thin pair of running socks though.

They were great! I always wear them with a thin pair of running socks though.

Was going to ask that. Are these thin shoes worn with or without socks?

I started running last winter when there was snow on the ground. They were great! I always wear them with a thin pair of running socks though.

Me too, I’m sure they’ll be fine – just a slight doubt I have.

Was going to ask that. Are these thin shoes worn with or without socks?

A lot of people wear them without socks (this is the intention of the manufacturers I believe) but I got a bit of rubbing so picked up some thin proper running socks without seams (innov8 I think).

So, went running again last night. In spite of a slower start to the warm up, stretching before and during it, this “cramp” returned pretty much straight away. It makes my feet feel like flippers flapping against the ground. Again, running was much better (albeit just as slow…).

Am convinced it’s the shoes – I’ve some thin soled leather shoes on today that feel more comfortable and I reckon would be easier to run in. They are Italian mind….

Will give it one more try on Friday, then I’m off to a running shop to try on some different shoes.

Do you get the flippers flapping sensation if you run on the spot?

I’m not a runner, physio, gait guru or even stw-level expert.

… sounds to me like you’re stretching out too far in front of you, meaning you’re landing very much heel first and then your foot really is “slapping down” as you described, stretching the muscle that’s trying to resisit this (isn’t that supposed to be a big driver for cramp, elongating a muscle under tension ?)

The only time I run is with my kids and it’s so slow that it knackers me every time, one way or another. Force yourself to take short strides – maybe even run on your toes only – and see what happens

Do you get the flippers flapping sensation if you run on the spot?

Don’t get it running. Get it walking to warm up..! And no, on the spot is fine. Suggest I just warm up on the spot? Fair enough.

.. sounds to me like you’re stretching out too far in front of you, meaning you’re landing very much heel first and then your foot really is “slapping down” as you described, stretching the muscle that’s trying to resisit this (isn’t that supposed to be a big driver for cramp, elongating a muscle under tension ?)

Seems sensible. It may just be my otherwise now sedentary lifestyle (combined with the prior long term effects of cycling only for exercise).

When I run, I try to land on my forefoot. But walking is, by definition, heel first.

Do you get the same problem walking round the supermarket or at work? It’s hard to imagine that just 5 mins walking isn’t something everybody does several times a day. So what are you doing differently when walking to warm up, that you don’t do at other times?

So what are you doing differently when walking to warm up, that you don’t do at other times?

Am trying to work this out.

As above, it is something I’ve experienced before, which I;ve always put down to a combination of walking too fast on hard surfaces with the wrong shoes. But I’ve never thought in detail what those combined factors are.

go out for a walk in your leather shoes next time.

do as you would do if you went out for your run.

if you dont get pain then come back and throw those trainers in the bin !