As My drive train is about knackered I got to wondering about the hub gears .
what are the Pros and cons for going with a Rohloff and maybe a twin or single cog up front

would I still be able to winch my self up the hills in the dales

I was having the same thoughts. Mud season will soon start when everything defrosts…

There is some great tech info on the rohloff website.

Spread of gears seems good & tranmissional losses seem also approx equal to derailleur.
I don't think there is any need (or benefit) for the twin up front.

I was contemplating using an old frame I have lying around here for a build using a eccentric BB.

flicking through st mag the other day, there's a comparison between Rohloff and Alfine. Don't know what they said about em…

Rohloff mega money, Alfine sensible!

They're great 😆 if you're not a weight weenie.
I'm running two for over 10000 miles now, one on the HT & one full sus, do a search as there was a thead only a few weeks ago.
I'm getting 5 or 6 times the milage out of chains/sprockets (Sram PC1N £8.95 & Rohloff 16T £22)
I've got a deraileur bike (08 Mount Vision) but hardley use it!
But as usual the nay sayers will be along to slag them off.
To me the Rohloff/Alfine comparison is pointless as the range of gears is so different between the two, Alfine being a 1X9 replacement & the Rohloff having that of a 27 speed set up.

It's an expensive way to change gears.

I built an Alfine equiped commuter for the boss & we're now soon to be swapping that out for a Rohloff.
Only real issue we've had with the Alfine is the amount of drag there seems to be in it, far less when we tested the Rohloff.

Only real issue we've had with the Alfine is the amount of drag there seems to be in it, far less when we tested the Rohloff.

You seem to have that the wrong way round…

Nope, the Alfine has been horrible to ride on quite frankly-feels like it's running on flat tyres! Rohloff I tested is in a different league.

There's something wrong with your Alfine then.

I've had/have both BTW…

In fairness though I'm not that keen on either.

+1. my alfine spins very freely, thanks.
also the alfine is equivalent to a 2×9 spread. you just have to decide if you want to drop the top, the bottom, or sit somewhere in the middle. mine is geared down to provide low-end winching, but still gives me enough pedal at the top. YMMV.
i'm sure the 'hoff is great, but whether or not it's 4 times greater…?

alfine is only a 1×9 spread. Mine runs freely.

ok, well, without wishing to be drawn into an argument about it, i get low enough that i feel like i'm in granny 1st, maybe 2nd, and high enough that i'm pushing a noticeably bigger gear than my 32:16 SS, which is what matters to me. running 32/20 cogs.
i've never done the sums to find out exactly what ratio the top end is, it feels like middle and lower end of the block somewhere. it 'feels' like 2×9, or at least the 2×9 i run on my bouncer which is 22/32 on the front, but maths was never my strong point. they also suggest it's roughly equivalent to 2×9 in the mag review.
i'm sure someone can do the sums on the ratios. i know some people like that.
as they also state in the mag, it's not really an apples for apples comparison ( 'hoff vs alfine ) given the different spread.

But as usual the nay sayers will be along to slag them off.

I'm not sure if I qualify as one of those. I was very happy with my Rohloff – apart from the rubbish allegedly zero maintenance cables which rusted solid in 6 months, right up to the point where the main bearings failed due to water ingress. I'm widely informed that it is unrealistic to expect any bicycle part to survive regular immersion, and the fact that my Hope hubs and Heath-Robinson derailleurs cope is incidental.

No sfb I wouldn't call you a nay sayer, just someone who tested one to beyond its limits, they need a breather to allow for expansion in warmer weather & if you plunge a hub into cold water as the air inside contracts the only thing that can come in through the breather is water not air & once inside the water will wreck it (probably the same for an Alfine)
I once rode an old GT through a 3' deep river & two days later the Hope hubs (big'uns) & the BB (Shim UN52) were seized solid & needed new bearings – since then I will not subject my hubs or BB to total submersion in water as I'm sure they'd suffer for it.

they need a breather to allow for expansion in warmer weather

there is no breather other than the "seals" – which even Rohloff admit were made weaker to reduce friction and can let the oil leak out if laid on one side. As for "needing" one, the pressure change from -20C to 50C would be about 250mbar, not exactly demanding…

There is a breather, it is in the axle of the hub.

I've used mine for four and a half years, I really like it, love the smooth changes regardless of conditions. You can gear it to compare with any 9speed system, so getting up Dales or any other hills, is purely down to you as in a mech system.

My Rohloff has been back to Germany twice, two year intervals. The first was an oil leak through the breather(small hole in the axle) – and some very minor play in the hub – Rohloff carried out a update mod, and replaced the driver bearings (not main axle bearings) free of charge even the postage – collect and deliver.
The second time was recently, I started to get mis-shift in certain gears, I posted it back after they called me, following my email. Postage was £60, they stripped it, and reset the gear shift points, replaced the driver bearings again and oil seals as before, didn't charge me anything or the return postage.

Overall, if I have to send it back and it costs £60 every two years, I am still very happy with it – it does get a hell of a lot of use! And, I would miss the silky smooth gear changes if I changed back.

I didn't really notice the dragg, after reading all the negative reviews, I thought it was in fact very minor, it hasn't held me back, I've raced with it too.

My advice, is test ride one, as every one has a different expectation – that way you won't be dissapointed if you expect it to be something it isn't.

Having read this thread, just to keep up to date with all things gear-changy, I have decided hub gears aren't there yet.

Having to return a component for someone else to maintain it is the biggest problem for me.

Rohloff = Apple 😀

For me the short answer is a Rohloff is great and I won't be going back to outside gears. I've had one for a few years now, fitted to both full sus and hardtail frames.

Things to note:
– The standard cable setup is rubbish, fit bog standard brake outers and normal gear cables and they just work and work and work.
– It's not light or cheap, but the weight doesn't bother me and personally it will have paid for itself within a year or so as I used to go through rear mechs and hangers far too frequently.
– It is immune to the mud, perfect shifting every time.
– The grip shifter is better and more comfortable than I thought it would be.
– There is drag there, but to be honest it's minimal and I'll happily put up with it for the performance the hub offers.

They're not for everyone, but I'm very happy with mine.

I'm not going back to dérailleurs. I ride off road to work year round and it just keeps going with virtually no maintenance and the drive train lasts. Previous chain did 3 years. It is heavier and at some point I'd like to try combining it with a belt drive as that would give a significant drop in weight.

I have an alfine and love it. It may be the poor mans rohloff but I'm a poor man 🙂 It is great to have a virtually zero maintenance drivetrain. Lube teh chain and thats it

I'm amazed none of you have touted the Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub with disk mount. Not that I've tried it like (have one sat on a shelf in the garage) but surely anything from the Archer stable has to be a winner…

There is a breather, it is in the axle of the hub

oh really? sorry for my misunderstanding 🙁 I'd never come across any mention of it in the Rohloff literature or diagrams

This thread was informative http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/tell-me-about-rohloff-hubs-please

have been looking into Alfines too, and they reckon the spread on an Alfine with 20T sprocket is approx 11-38.

So by comparison with a normal 22:32:42 front and say 11:32 rear, you'll cover 32:11 down to sth like 22:18, which by my reckoning would be granny and 4 or 5?

So you're all right. It's bigger range than a 1×9 but not as much as 2×9.

I rode with a speedhub for over two years and like(d) them alot.

Sold my Nicolai with the 'hoff on thinking that I would have to give up riding (but thats another thread).

So I've recently bought another bike (currently being built up), and I've got conventional gears.

I think the 'hoff works well on a hardtail, and particualrly a frame which is designed for it (Endorfin Spped R, which I had, and wish I still had).

Although I had the 'hoff on the Nicolai (specifically designed for the speedhub) , I'm still not 100% sure (which doesn't mean I don't like it).

It just seems that the hardtail seems to suit it much better. No chain tensioner and the weight seems to be coped with better on the lighter hardtail, than a heavier full suss.

Drag is there, depends on how much climbing is involved where you ride.

Expensive – yes
Excellent means of changing gear once you get used to it.

Probably will buy another (not just yet though) on a hardtail frame though.

John. an alfine is almost exactly the range of a 11/34 cassette. Depending what gearing you run it on you can alter the range up an down the scale same as you can with a dérailleur. but the standard set up of 32 chainring with 18 sprocket is exactly the same as 32 chainring and 11/34 casette. Put a 20 on and its the same as a 12 / 38 casette equivalent

Rohloff and Alfine are good hubs, and I'd sooner drag one through mud than a derailleur and cassette.

The only thing better is my S-A 3 speed which has all the gears you could possibly need – 1 for going uphill, 1 for the flat, and one for downhill. 🙂

Shame it doesn't fit a mtb. 🙁

Simon, yep a small hole in the axle accoreding to Rohloff, this was an area they update modded on my original return. Have you noticed trace hub oil on the Q/R spindle – that's where it's from. 🙂

woodsman that explains why on 2 occasions I've had small oil leaks. Both times occurred when the bike had been left in the warehouse at work for a couple of days in the winter and we have a giant gas fan heater which certainly gets the racking and the flight cases around it pretty hot. The bike sits a little way from it but is in the path of the hot air flow. I'd assumed it must be heat related as it never spilt a drop on the garage floor at home.

Sounds normal avdave2, my hub is quite old, and developed a leak onto the rotor, which is why it went back. Now, it's just trace oil on the q/r.

I found the Alfine disappointingly draggy in higher gears (good for a mud bike, but I wouldn't want to ride it everyday). A good 3-speed should be less draggy, lighter and cheaper, but haven't seen a suitable one yet. Even better would be a 3-speed Hammerschmidt and single rear…

I've always found the Rohloff to be disappointingly draggy and the Alfine to have surprisingly little drag.

Iain McLay's Rohloff-specific Nicolai Helius CC with AM rear triangle is still available in the classifieds, and in the next couple of days or so I will be advertising his well-specced rigid Inbred 29er with Rohloff, and a 26" rigid Inbred with Rohloff as well. The latter will be offers around £900 complete so a 'relatively' inexpensive way of experiencing if it's for you.

I've got a new commuting bike with an Alfine to replace the old single speed. Only trouble is, it doesn't seem as fast.

Initially I thought I wasn't pushing as hard due to the set up of bars/seat/pedals not being quite right. But then I got the set up pretty good and it still wasn't doing the speed I'd expect, compared with the single speed.

The single speed has exactly the same tyres, same rims/spokes, same front hub, same length of crank, same saddle…I reused a lot of bits onto the new bike. New bike is maybe a little bit lighter and has a little bit lower drop handlebar position. But really I'd say except for the gears the bikes are as alike as a new and an old bike could be. And I went straight from the old bike to the new bike, the person riding is the same.
I'd expect that the Alfine's gears are slightly less efficient than the single speed. But this would be compensated for by having better gear rations. The single speed had a 66” gear and so on a shallow hill would probably be better. But on a shallow downhill It should be a different story. The 96” top gear on the Alfine is going to be easier to get up to terminal velocity. But I wasn't finding that. On downhills where the single speed would get to 40kph, the Alfine was struggling to do 32kph. On really big hills where most of the energy came from freewheeling the Alfine seemed fast. On the flat where the single speed was doing 30-35kph the Alfine was doing 25-30kph

On really steep climbs it's difficult to say what is faster but the lower gears on the Alfine are certainly easier

I did a google for this kind of Alfine drag thing and it seems that some people believe that the hub beds in and is faster after 1000 miles or so. The speculation is that this is due to the cogs wearing in inside the gearbox.

After 600km it seems a little bit less draggy, so I live in hope.

I find it interesting the different views people have of the drag in the alfine. I must say I have not noticed. Is there a difference between different hubs? Some "tighter" than others?

Certainly in theory there will be drag and turning the pedals with the bike upside down I can feel it but I don't notice when riding it.

Another ex Rohloff and current Alfine owner here that finds the Rohloff more draggy.

That triangular gear shifter really bites into your hand on long days in the saddle too.

my alfine definitely 'bedded in' after a few rides. went from spinning the wheel and getting maybe one or two rotations, to spinning it and getting lots.

vorsprung,
What shifter are you using for the Alfine with drop handlebars?

keppoch.

It is weird isn't it that people have such differing opinions of the same product, if you want either an Alfine or Rohloff just test one for the day – you will have YOUR answer.

SJS cycles allowed me to take an Enduro (Thorn) over the Quantocks for the day, where I rode it, like I stole it! 😉

Head for the Hills, will let you take a Rohloff'd bike out for the day (small charge apparently)

I'm sure they're are more…………..

This slight drag that is mentioned how is it felt when peddeling or freewheeling