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1. trout - Member

   This is top secret so please dont tell a soul .
   I have been in collaberation with someone who wants to do a light with me aimed at the roadie market with maybe a crossover into the mtb side .

   he is very much an expert in led lighting and optics / thermal management and I have seen his work and it is good so at the moment I dont know what he has in mind except this design concept copied from his email

   1 Extremely bright
   2 Extremely light weight ( carbon fibre construction )
   3 Longest throw beam in a bike format
   4 Perfect cutoff to avoid dazzling oncoming traffic
   5 Self contained batteries
   6 Multi-level low beam- single level high beam

   Again I am looking at this light to be ultra-premium. It is no small task and we should be compensated accordingly. I believe if you do it they will come. Make the best and you will always have customers.

   so I am after a few opinions on the perfect road light from the stw hive

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. druidh - Member

   First question - is it for seeing, or for being seen? One needs throw, the other needs spread.

   For the latter, it doesn't even have to be that powerful, but a long-lasting battery would be great.

   For the former, I don't see what the difference is between a road and an off-road light. I commute using an Airlight P7 in the winter - supplemented by something with more spread. The only possible differentiator might be your beam cut-off pattern.

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. radoggair - Member

   carbon - yes, and leave it bare carbon. Think something in the region of 1000 lumens should be about right, so for yourself that should make it compact enough, and of course with upgradeable LED's as/if/when they feel they need to.
   Would think more spotlight than spread for a road bike since you dont have to really worry about whats beside you, more whats just ahead
   Also, if you cant fit the batteries into the light then maybe a battery case which you could design which fits just under then stem. Since most roadies run a 90mm plus stem this should give pleny of scope.
   The light itself would have to be quite streamline rather than bulky since this would integrate dynamics/less drag ( it wouldn't really affect drag but its mainly a mind over matter thing for fast guys).

   HTH

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. trout - Member

   This is for seeing mainly and he wants it to be the best light possible

   main problem I tried to tell him was how deep the pockets and how short the arms were on a lot of the roadies

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. trout - Member

   Radoggair it wont be anywhere near 1000 lumens he is very expert in optics so will be using less lumens but using them better

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. druidh - Member

   trout - Member

   main problem I tried to tell him was how deep the pockets and how short the arms were on a lot of the roadies

   My experience is quite the opposite

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. trout - Member

   OK Druihd that I like

   so how much for the lightest brightest batteries included bar light
   or if I have owt to do with it also helmet light for us swamp donkey off roaders

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. convert - Member

   An exposure joystick on steroids please! An easy dip & plug in rear for me. And let me put it on my bonce when I'm off road.

   Carbon - why? Unless it's carrying only just enough battery capacity for the trip in question, saving 10g on the body is not going to make much difference. Apart from looking different.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. west kipper - Member

   I can tell you what I'd like in a road lamp.
   Small size; road bars are narrower than MTBs and the tops are used as an extra hand hold. The ability to be run underneath the bar can reduce the lamp unit rotating suddenly when a pothole is hit. Also running it lower helps to reduce dazzling oncoming traffic.
   Long battery life; 6 hrs minimum. high reliability and waterproof-osity :-)and a rattle-free battery pack.
   A long throw beam is important, but it still needs enough spill to see the verge and roadsigns.
   Ideally, being able to go from a mid-high beam to low (and back again) without cycling through the full range of modes. This helps to avoid the dazzling issue (or makes a warning shot possible for the few numpties)
   Again, this is what I'd like, not saying everyone will agree...

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. iamsporticus - Member

    Tough call!

    I use a HID occasionally on my road bike

    Along the lanes its exactly what you want, especially if they are pot holed or likely to have debris at the side/in the road

    But its a liability if you have an oncoming car
    It just dazzles everyone even on its low setting

    I also occasionally see cyclists using off road lights when Im in the car and due to the brightness sometimes find it tough to judge how far they are away which prob explains the t0sspot who turned in front of me whilst using it myself once

    So for me:

    Run time
    Weight
    But most important optics and beam spread
    And easy to switch to low dazzle mode too

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. coffeeking - Member

    I'll echo most of west kippers answers. But ultimately it depends what sort of rider it's aimed at - most "serious" roadies won't go out in the dark, but I@m not sure whether thats because they can't see, or can't be seen. I suspect the former as there's plenty of lights out there to let you be seen.

    HArd to have a good beam cut-off for lack of dazzling when you're trying to max throw - you'll end up with the same effect that HID and projector car lights have - look fine until you hit a slight bump or wobble, then you flash-dazzle the traffic.

    Some lovely carbon wraps (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/4229892494_ea15719971_o.jpg, loads like the left hand side but differing weaves) are available and are a little more robust than a thin alu can, but also poor heat rejection, you may need to consider secondary heatsinking somehow, through the clamp to the bars would be ideal but requires specific clamps per bar diam but does offer good conduction.

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. west kipper - Member

    One thing I really notice when using Hopes 4 (aside from the rattly pack) is even when on the lower settings many oncoming cars 'think' that you're running a full beam and deliberately retaliate with their considerably more powerful full beams (and sometimes rally-spots too)
    Flicking up (briefly) to full gets the message across, but it would be nice to avoid the confusion in the first place.

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. trout - Member

    The joystick on steroids if dead easy and something I have wanted to do for a while now just waiting for someone to send me one to upgrade .

    Carbon well I was supprised but having seen what he does with leds pushing them way past their maximum current and getting the heat out I do believe him .

    Good stuff coming in thanks will send this thread to the guy and see what comes back.
    Keep it coming

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. convert - Member

    I think lights like hope 4s probably have no place on the road. My old L&M ultra arcs can be pretty bad too but I tend to ride with them pointing slightly left, or swivel them that way when a car comes. Too much light and too widely spread for oncoming traffic.

    I have ridden quite successfully on the road with just a joystick on medium setting in the south of England where there is always a town close enough that it doesn't get proper dark. Up in the highlands, 20 miles from the nearest town, where it is proper dark the joystick does struggle a bit.

    Looking again, the Exposure Strada might not be far off my perfect light already for road only riding. Just sex it up a bit!

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. west kipper - Member

    Convert, I dont really agree. Some of us ride well away from towns and well into the sticks and I've never felt (at least on level 2/3) that I had too much light. remember on a roadbike, you're usually going way faster than on an MTB.
    Theres also the possiblity that you'll have to use your light to fix a puncture/ mechanical out in the total pitch black.

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. scaredypants - Member

    good lens/cut-off would be essential IMO - nicer still if it was possible to "switch" on and off as big spread is really nice off-road and gives a feeling of bigger space somehow. I guess it might feel the same on road. Also, if you do point it all downward, the forward throw would be hard to achieve

    So a physical "dip" - but also switchable to a lower intensity. Preferably independently operable so you can have a brigh full cone or dip and a dimmer fiull cone or dip

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. convert - Member

    I agree - the more light the better - for riding. However, you have to some consideration for other road users and a high powered light designed for off road that dazzles on coming drivers is not up to the job. I guess what trout is proposing to design is light with the "punch" of a high lumen off road light, but in more controlled form.

    And the joystick of which I speak is still rated at 240 lumen at max output which is orders of magnitudes brighter than the head torch I've done jobs just as fiddly as punctures like making camp, cooking or ice climbing on mountaineering expeds. You get used to what you have - it was not that long ago that 200 lumen for mtb night riding was thought of a ridiculously ott and I don't remember riding much slower than I do now.

    ps Where I live down south would be considered waaaaay out in the sticks my most (3 miles to the nearest village with a street light) and my commute to work used to be 22miles each way on single track roads @ 19mph average - it's just when you have seen proper dark (ie you can't see your hand in front of your face) you realise that most in the western world don't know what real dark is!

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. samuri - Member

    Roadies want different things for sure.

    On the road The most important thing to me is being seen, not being able to see. I want a light that presents itself from directly in front of me to at least 90 degress on each side. **** bright flashes too, with a low level constant light. If someone can;t see me from half a mile away, the light has failed.

    I want the option to trip to DAYGLOW where I can see down a leafy 1:4 twisty lane when I'm skinning down it at 50mph.

    I want something to tell me I'm low on battery power, possibly with a backup style option that just flashes to get me home. Last thing I want is being 20 miles away from home and no lights.

    I want ultra easy changes from 'stick that pal' DAYGLOW to 'thanks mate' dipped.

    No battery bags, lets make them a thing of the past.

    Fast and intelligent charge obviously.

    Lightweight? Gayers. You want to ride at night, take the weight hit. Yes, there's a market there for carbon but it'll be out of my price range, get the idea?

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. Swalsey - Member

    Trout - something like the Hope led 2 light format with the greater throw (for greater speeds) and dipped beam etc would be ideal.

    Havn't read the rest of the the thread above, but the sleek carbon sounds good, looks are important. Other things I would suggest are possibilities for customisation, even if its just a colour option.

    My other big idea, if I were in your position, I would like a system that would allow me to attach a rear light to the same battery - so the battery type doesn't gradually get dimmer... so a complementary rear light thats VERY bright and makes me think I could get away with one and not three...

    Hope thats good!

    Antony

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. west kipper - Member

    Convert, I suspect we're not actually disagreeing (please note how much emphasis I place on NOT dazzling oncoming traffic) but we do need enough light to fully COMPETE with that traffic, especially when riding on roads where there is little ambient light to soften the contrast.
    After all, it would be easy to get by with the tiniest light if there were no car lights blinding us.
    Really, I wont be totally happy until someone brings out one that is at least as effective as a good motorcycle headlamp.

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. zaskar - Inactive

    Well in winter you need a good light in the dark to see road obsticals.

    Cycling to Bristol from Bath on the cycletrack was a nightmare with a top Cateye till I bought a Hope Vision 1 which did the job @17mph in pitch black areas.

    Need something spread but also lighting the path/road up ahead if that makes sense?!

    Does not have to be uber bright but the distance of the beam really is needed and I was happy with 1 metre wide spread. But DIstance is key.

    Long run time 4hrs at least? ideal for commuter/training.

    Dim switch for oncoming traffic/cyclists.

    Decent removal mount thatdoesn't wear too easily.
    Bottle cage battery backup but onboard batteries like the hope vison one
    would be awesome.

    Slim and not huge with all the roadie gadgets.

    Maybe a light to see your cycle computer adjacent to the light.

    Also on road - Side lighting with leds near the side for drivers at T junctions.

    Hope that helps (went on abit sorry!)

    Does not need to be super lightweight as winter training is just mileage not hard workouts. But lighter than competitors.
    Oh and flashing modes with power gauge and flux capacitor for time travel.

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. west kipper - Member

    Och, and I'd take Samuri's input on road matters with a pince of sodium chloride, Trout, that crazy cat doesn't even 'get' proper road pedals

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. beej - Member

    Similar to Samuri:

    - Small, easy to take on and off the bike - like the joystick
    - Integral battery - like the joystick
    - 6 hours run time at at least 400 lumens
    - Easy dipping (remote switch a bit like Exposure offer)
    - Side visability
    - Flashing combined with a constant beam

    Joystick on steroids again...

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. mrmo - Member

    something i have been thinking about for my next light is a dynamo, would do away with the battery and its lifespan. Would need some form of capacitor to provide light when stopped for junctions, etc.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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