Another thing is these ‘signals’. not everyone knows them, you don’t get a manual of signals when you buy a bike. some people don’t frequent internet forums or go n club rides s have never come across ‘riding bikes on the road signals’.

Maybe you dafters should ask the proposed drafees if they mind before assuming, rather than expecting randoms to have the correct knowledge.
Edit: like what he said up there^^

Turn pedals harder = go faster. pull brakes = go slower. I learn’t that before the internet was invented.

Except there is more than that, hence you getting upset when out on a ride.

Another thing is these ‘signals’. not everyone knows them, you don’t get a manual of signals when you buy a bike.

And you don’t get a manual saying pedal to go forward and brakes for stop. You learn it by practice and riding, just as you learn the signals. It only takes a minute to pick it up.

Riding bikes isn’t about drafting, club riding and racing maybe but riding bikes is not.

Obviously you are discovering that drafting is far more than just racing. The wind is your enemy!

why don’t roadies start some code of conduct for drafting

There is – the person in front needs to look out for them!

And I still don’t see why it bothers you. It’s not invading your personal space!

It isn’t really dangerous for the person in the front, all the risk is on the person drafting.

Completely untrue. If the drafter runs into the back of the guy in front, you’ll both be off. I have a set of pringled Open Pros to prove it…

Based on the theory that… “staying in the draft, a rider will do 25 to 30 percent less work than the rider in front to maintain the same speed”, I take satisfaction in knowing that I’m getting 25 to 30 percent more out of the ride than the person drafting me 🙂

traildog – Member
Well, I just took your argument that people were ‘roadie clown’s’ when all they are doing is what people who ride bikes do – draft. One of the most fundamental aspects to riding a bike on the road. And I can tell my reading what you say.

Universally, people that draft me uninvited, are on my commute in town, usually up their pace to stay on, may save them a few seconds. I’ve rarely had anyone draft me uninvited who seemed like an experienced roadie. It’s manners, etiquette and safety. I’m not SO upset about it, it’s just irritating when people on the internet can’t accept my experience.

I think the ‘drafting is likely totally awesome man’ camp don’t quite understand whats going on here.

Generally the people that draft me on my commute are not die hard road riders who are well versed in the rules, they generally appear to be competitors in the unspoken commuting race. If you were to flick an elbow in their direction they wouldn’t have a clue what you were doing, they don’t have the fitness to do a stint on the front and if they should ever manage to pass after sitting on my wheel for 5 minutes they generally die a death. You pass them, they catch your wheel, they then think they’re in a team time trial and sit on your arse for ever.

No amount of slowing down will encourage them to pass you. Of course when you get to a set of lights they generally gather at the front of the traffic, wobble off, get in the way and then the whole sorry process starts again.

Oh and the usually have far too many layers of clothes on as they think its ‘pro’ to wear longs in the middle of June – must protect the knees and all that. No wonder you can’t go fast, you’re sweating like a fat kid in a cake shop.

The pro drafting lobby are living in a world filled with pro or semi pro riders all out for a bit of through and off on the jaunt home.

You know me, I ride road a lot, I hate hangers on. If i hear someone behind me I either put the power down sharpish or turn off or failing that I freewheel right off.
Want a free ride? Find someone else sonny.

You can tell I like riding either on my own or with my whippet mate can’t you.

I’ve had my fill of hangers on years ago when I used to race.

This is obviously quite a big deal. I too have safety concerns when someone grabs a draft. I’m always doing lifesaver looks so I don’t get sneaked up on, but if the drafter isn’t right behind me, they block my view. That, and they might run into the back of me if I have to brake hard. I can just about grasp how this can make people angry, but what I utterly fail to understand is how you can even entertain the idea of doing something as p*ss-dangerous as braketesting the guy behind or deliberately bunny-hopping a pothole instead of moving around it. Whoever suggested such a thing, never mind actually did it, ought to be ashamed of themselves.

This is what I’m trying to get my head around, I get that it *does* annoy you, I’m trying to understand *why*.

Here’s a reason, I don’t really like other people or their company much, I like riding my bike to be alone. I don’t like people standing close to me or following me, so if I’m out riding on my own I don’t like being drafted without any acknowledgement. Club rides are different, someone catching up and asking is different.

hence you getting upset when out on a ride.

You seem to be the one getting upset here, i have not once said that drafting bothers me or otherwise, I just think that assuming people know your definition of ‘proper riding’ is idiotic. And saying that drafting is a fundamental part of road riding is also ridiculous. You should stop being lazy and ride a bit more.

I wonder if many of the “people who draft are lazy scroungers” crowd also vote tory.

I wonder if many of the “people who draft are lazy scroungers” crowd also vote tory.

WTF!

I wonder if many of the “people who draft are lazy scroungers” crowd also vote tory.

Clearly you should be a political analyst, you have incredibly incisive insight into the voting public and their peculiar ways.

If the drafter runs into the back of the guy in front, you’ll both be off.

Not necessarily I’ve been hit from behind at least twice while racing with no issue to me. We used to do it to each other as kids as well for laughs, and I only remember the person behind coming off.

But Dragon, you say if someone doesn’t like it they should either talk to the other cyclist or just stop.
why (as the person who has taken up the draft) is it not your responsibility to enquire if the rider in front minds?

I normally always do say hello or ask, and nobody has ever had a problem with it, but you keep saying you do, so if for example a rider caught you up and politely said “do you mind if I tuck in?”

What are you going to do?
Would you ask them to overtake?
Or would you ask them to stay back as you don’t want them getting a free ride?
Or would you say “sure, no problem” and then just sit there seething while they use your free energy?

effectively those who advocate it are saying if you don’t like me on your back wheel, pedal faster or stop.

Or you know, you could just ignore them?

It’s only a big deal if you make it a big deal, and it’s not your space any more than it is theirs, you’re two people riding on the same bit of road, as long as they’re paying attention, not half-wheeling etc then what bother is it to you if they’re there?

You’ve gone from saying you don’t like them getting a free ride off your effort (despite it not inconveniencing you), to now saying you simply don’t like them being in your space, sounds to me like you just don’t like other people 😉

Clearly you should be a political analyst, you have incredibly incisive insight into the voting public and their peculiar ways.

You’re not answering the question though.

😉

Crispy:

How is ‘braketesting’ any more dangerous than say a blow out at speed or a mech through the spokes? either way the person behind is going to have a hard time getting out the way if they’re sat on your wheel.

if you are uninvited and unwanted then accept any behaviour that comes your way…or put the pedals down and go faster, as that seems to be the roady advice.

and as above, the main complaint here seems to be the die-hard commuters.

[maths pedant]

Based on the theory that… “staying in the draft, a rider will do 25 to 30 percent less work than the rider in front to maintain the same speed”, I take satisfaction in knowing that I’m getting 33.3 to 42.9 percent more out of the ride than the person drafting me

FTFY

[/maths pedant]

Amedias:

I mean both, I do not appreciate them expecting a free / easy ride AND I don’t appreciate them being in my personal space.

and yes even though there is nowt in the space around me, it is still my space. if I chose to stop and you haven’t given me enough space then you are going to pile into the back of me, therefore you are invading my space. until the day that bikes have to have brake lights as cars do then the riders behind should be providing clear space for all eventualities.

I’m not trying to be agro here, or be some die hard anti roady / drafting type as the intonation of what I am trying to put across is not always clear.
so on that note I am furkin off, I wish you all well on your riding exploits whatever and wherever they may be

OP, you should just relax a bit and enjoy the ride. I cant see any problem, but the one you are making.

What I suspect is that you are getting angry because you perceive someone is benefiting from your hard pedaling work. Its not going to make you any slower.

I suspect you are moaning about this as shouting through audi windows has become less attractive for you.

Just ride and enjoy it FFS. This kind of attitude stinks.

Sharp hard braking usually teaches them a lesson in getting too close. Safe stopping distances applies to bicycles, just as much cars.

It’s more fun when there is a string of drafters behind you.

Used to somehow pick up drafters on the commute home – one of whom lived about 100 metres down the road from me. Never once acknowledged me / said hello (hell, even responded to hello!). Just sat on my tail for miles on end, several times a week.

What baffles me, is I’m hardly a fast road rider!

It’s pretty much a single road home (Blackburn to Preston, via Ribchester), so would see familiar roadies every day.

OP, you should just relax a bit and enjoy the ride. I cant see any problem, but the one you are making.

Just ride and enjoy it FFS. This kind of attitude stinks.

Indeed!

it’s just irritating when people on the internet can’t accept my experience.

I accept your experience, but calling people “roadie clowns” is not so much experience as opinion and insulting to other people. They may not be your ideal of a bike rider, but at least they’re out there riding.

And saying that drafting is a fundamental part of road riding is also ridiculous.

It happens, hence this thread. I’m saying you shouldn’t be so upset about it. If it was “ridiculous”, we wouldn’t be having this thread. Lesser riders can go quicker by holding a wheel, and will do so if they can. It’s physics and thus becomes a fundamental part of riding, like “why do fat people slow down on hills, I find that annoying”

You should stop being lazy and ride a bit more.

eh?

I just worry about all this talk of “brake testing” which is much more dangerous (not to mention rude), than some guy struggling along trying to get a free ride.

Yes, these riders are not the most experienced, and people might call that “clowns” but if they were then they’d be able to pull through and ride a bit more. Everyone saying they’re not getting “worked up” but then there is talk of doing moves like that which are dangerous and could really hurt someone.

Honestly, some of you should really be more encouraging to people. And you’re welcome to hold my wheel any time.

It’s amazing how uptight some folk are getting about people being uptight about something, then telling them not to get uptight about the thing they’re uptight about them getting uptight about

traildog – Member
it’s just irritating when people on the internet can’t accept my experience.

I accept your experience

Erm….

Honestly, some of you should really be more encouraging to people

For the nth time, it’s about safety. The people that have drafted me do not strike me as safe riders, and I’m not going to encourage them to compromise my safety.

The people that have drafted me do not strike me as safe riders, and I’m not going to encourage them to compromise my safety.

Ah, so you don’t actually know they’re unsafe. They might be experienced roadies giving you as much room as they think you need based on their wealth of experience.

“might be” 🙄

Given one of them went into the back of me when I had to brake suddenly in traffic, and the others even drafting in traffic, I’d say no.

🙄

😆

OP, you should just relax a bit and enjoy the ride. I cant see any problem, but the one you are making.

What I suspect is that you are getting angry because you perceive someone is benefiting from your hard pedaling work. Its not going to make you any slower.

I suspect you are moaning about this as shouting through audi windows has become less attractive for you.

Just ride and enjoy it FFS. This kind of attitude stinks.

You’ve made so many assumptions…you must be the all knowing Oracle.

My original post wasn’t aggressive or arsey, just perplexed. At what point did you get the impression I need to relax? I’m just stating a couple of situations and asking the forum their experiences on whether this is the norm, I didn’t rant and rave or accuse people of shouting at other people….that seems to have been taken care of by yourself.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s dangerous. When you are riding in a group you know someone is behind you, when it’s done in Stealth it’s dangerous.

Chasing someone down after they’ve past you and then sitting on their wheel, maybe in a race where you may have a chance of recovering and winning said race it’s okay I suppose, although probably frowned apon by the pro’s if you don’t pull your weight?? (I don’t really have a scooby to be honest), but on a normal ride just seems a bit weird to me.

As for shouting at people in Audi’s…..did you really write that??

Sure it’s me who’s got the stinky attitude?

as for the FFS….really? Silly person.

I hate unknown drafters.
You don’t know they are there and are thus a hazard. As I found out the other day when a sheep stepped out. Disc brakes and 38mm slicks stop a damn site faster than 23mm tyres with rim brakes. Scared the crap out him. 😀
However if they say hello I am happy to play.

I’m not a fan of secret drafters, and prefer to go alongside and say hello before slotting in behind someone on my commute. A few years ago I mentioned this problem to a certain gent of this parish, his advice then was to stick it in the big ring and sprint. When the opportunity presented, I tried this out. After pulling a mini power wheelie, I sprinted as best I could for as long as I could. I didn’t dare look back in case he was still there…he wasn’t. I still feel embarrassed thinking about it now… 😳

I quite like people I’ve past drafting me, being quite fit I get great pleasure upping the pace ever so gently until I hear them start to stuggle then up it some more 😈

I commute daily on a shared cycle path that is free from traffic but lots of people walking errant hounds on and off the lead, toddlers and mums and people walking to work plus lots of other cyclists. You need to really take it easy as there are more vulnerable users sharing the path with you.
However, most of the time it is clear and safe to go swiftly. I don’t daft people as I don’t think its safe due to the dogs kids etc. If I am passed and can stay with someone or I catch someone but I am barely faster I follow at a distance and to the side.

Having someone tag on the back isn’t safe as I’m not a club rider versed in elbow communication. Generally I turn myself inside out and try and break them but the slowing down for kids and dogs means it can be difficult.

Does it up set me – no.

Do I think its rude – if you don’t acknowledge yourself and say hi or ta then yes.

Do I think it’s safe – it can be but there needed to be cooperation and
communication, otherwise no its not.