Factory wheels look lovely with their gucci bladed spokes and all. But is there any point splashing out £400 and more when it looks like a good wheel builder will put something very nice together for much less?

Want something around 1500g the pair, strong enough for long long sportive type things next summer. Wilson Cycles for example would knock up Mavic Open Pro on Record Hubs for £229. Anyone used them or have other recommendations?

Unless you're buying the top end wheelsets (which do offer real weight savings), it's cheaper to buy a set of handbuilts of the same weight/quality than factory builds though the factory ones tend to look nicer. They're also usually a lot easier to get replacement rims/spokes for should the worst happen

Handbuilt everytime not even a weight penalty.Try wheelsmith.co.uk

hand built. And as above, do some research about spoke availability and price before you buy. Bladed spokes might look nice and be light but when you have to pay something crazy like 8 quid per spoke and then find out you've only bought a spoke and not a nipple as well then you start to realise it's a bit of false economy.

I had exactly that problem with an XTR rear wheel. Couldnt find a spare spoke, ended up buying a copmlete set. Nightmare……and unnecessary.

Mleh…
I've had 7 pairs of handbuilt wheels, and four factory sets. I'm still using the factory ones; 8 year old Ksyrium SLs, new Ksyrium equipes, 10 year old Heliums and cheap as chips Shimano r-500s, while the handbuilts variously disintegrated at the hubs, at the spoke holes in both hubs and rims.

One pair of 28 hole handbuilt 'best wheels you'll ever ride on' were so flexy that they rubbed the paint off my chainstays on the first ride.

The Ksyrium SLs needed a new spoke, total cost £5 including trueing.

'Oooh get handbuilts' is a stock reply to this kind of question, but it's not always the best option….

…and the best way to avoid paying silly money for spokes is not to ride into things…

ditto,

my 'handbuilt' (probably by a machine these days anyway…..) wheels were never true, and never stayed true.

My factory built R-550's have never needed looking at after the first ride (gave the rear 1/4turn on each spoke to stiffen things up a little).

Factory wheels are also much more comfortable, the shimano ones transmit much less vibration than the 32spoked handbuilt wheels, a godsend if you live somewhere like the peaks where ice destroys the road surface every winter.

ohh and this negligable weight penalty for handbuilt wheels, even my R-550's (which arent light) weigh significantly less than the mavic CXP/DT/Shimano combo they replaced.

..and all my factory wheels have been raced, on cobbles too in the case of the SLs and Heliums. The Shimano R-500s are training wheels, and have done some stupid amount of salty gritty winter miles.

The hand built bit usually holds true unless you can weight for the end of year (or last years) model clear out when factory wheels become bargins

i recently swapped from ksyrium es to dura ace on open pro they are not as quick to get up to speed but are less harsh. And i built them myself so any repairs are cheap to sort . Id rather have something i can fix myself on the road

So poorly built handbuilt wheels or ones with crap hubs aren't great – well duh…

Properly built handbuilts using good components last almost indefinitely and cost less for the same performance (with the caveat about the more expensive factory wheels in my first post).

So long as it's a good wheelbuilder, you're not going to notice much difference (assuming the weights are all about the same).
Start paying a bit more and the quality of factory wheelsets does increase quite substantially.

I use both, not really bothered about the difference any more.

…and the best way to avoid paying silly money for spokes is not to ride into things…

I don't, but they still snap.

What Clubber said. High end for Factory but if you damage them they'll be a pain to repair and serviceable durable everyday wheels should be handbuilt.

I have a pair of Ultegra on open pro that I built 5 years ago. I service the hubs every year and have rebuilt the rear after a massive pot hole damaged the rim but apart from that I never touch them. Trued them maybe once.

I don't, but they still snap.

Maybe you need to stop riding so close to the biscuit tin? 😉

So poorly built handbuilt wheels or ones with crap hubs aren't great – well duh…

Those would be Dura-Ace or Ultegra hubs, and apart from the flexy rubbish*, were all built by a couple of very good wheel builders. Handbuilts are good, but their advantages are only apparent when they need repairing, which, in my experience, is more often than high end factory wheels.

As I say, it's become a mantra that gets repeated until it becomes gospel; 'handbuilts are better than factory wheels'; it aint necessarily so.

My team mate lost 3 spokes from a carbone cosmic in a sprint, and the wheel stayed true; I suspect a handbuilt wheel would be a bit wobbly..

(*Dave Hinde, long before his reputation was widely known..)

One pair of 28 hole handbuilt 'best wheels you'll ever ride on' were so flexy that they rubbed the paint off my chainstays on the first ride.

As said above, build quality matters, though the stiffer rims of fewer-spoked factory wheels may be siffer generally.

Factory wheels are also much more comfortable, the shimano ones transmit much less vibration than the 32spoked handbuilt wheels, a godsend if you live somewhere like the peaks where ice destroys the road surface every winter.

Nice sweeping generalisation there!

ohh and this negligable weight penalty for handbuilt wheels, even my R-550's (which arent light) weigh significantly less than the mavic CXP/DT/Shimano combo they replaced.

CXPs aren't exactly light!

My tuppence FWIW:

in the early days of ksyriums etc I worked as a wrench in an lbs – gettign spares involved hassle, delay and expense – ewhen they were available. Things may have moved on, but I go for handbuilts, and am keenly awaiting the stan's ZTR 355 road rim.

Remember that it's rim and tyre weight that really matter rather than overall wheel weight.

For me:

Factory buiilts on the race bike – Ksyriums: light stiff and fast.

Handbuilts in the winter – replacing spokes and rims is easy enough, and given the way i trash bike kit in the winter is *just* the cheapest option (though my wheelbuilding mate seems to have taken on the appearance of Dick Turpin recently)

Those would be Dura-Ace or Ultegra hubs, and apart from the flexy rubbish*, were all built by a couple of very good wheel builders.

Surely if they broke in the way you describe, they were more likely built by a couple of not really that good wheel builders? I bet they went loose / needed truing at various points too.

my 'handbuilt' (probably by a machine these days anyway…..) wheels were never true, and never stayed true.

Again, you got badly built wheels. If they didn't come true and stay true, they were badly built. A decent wheelbuild will stay true for thousands of miles (and certainly won't need a true after the first hundred miles or so – people claiming that all wheels need that are just bad wheel builders making excuses).

Joe

Again, mleh…

It's the niche/craftsman/artisan/old-man-in-a-shed has to be better than modern quality controlled big commercial company thing that pervades so much of cycling folklore;

Factory built wheels can be made by a machine to a given tension, then quality controlled, then the settings adjusted, then quality controlled until the product is as good as it can be. The machines don't stop for a cup of tea, don't have to keep stopping to serve someone in the shop, don't get that Friday afternoon feeling, don't have a bit of a cold coming on, don't get bored, and don't get a second chance to true them up after the first hundred miles…

My handbuilt wheels were built by good wheel builders, and lasted a long time; I've been riding and racing for over 20 years now, and put about 6 or 7 thousand miles on them each year. Yes, they worked as well as other wheels, but over time, those wheels have suffered mechanical problems that may well be easily rectified…

…but the wheels i'm still using are factory wheels because they are still working exactly as they were when I first bought them.

Factory built wheels can be made by a machine to a given tension, then quality controlled, then the settings adjusted, then quality controlled until the product is as good as it can be. The machines don't stop for a cup of tea, don't have to keep stopping to serve someone in the shop, don't get that Friday afternoon feeling, don't have a bit of a cold coming on, don't get bored, and don't get a second chance to true them up after the first hundred miles…

Can anyone confirm whether any decent wheels are built by machines? I had understood that "factory" wheels were handbuilt – in factories.

My handbuilt wheels were built by good wheel builders, and lasted a long time; I've been riding and racing for over 20 years now, and put about 6 or 7 thousand miles on them each year. Yes, they worked as well as other wheels, but over time, those wheels have suffered mechanical problems that may well be easily rectified…

…but the wheels i'm still using are factory wheels because they are still working exactly as they were when I first bought them.

Erm…which lasted the longest/highest mileage?

So thanks for all the thoughts, went factory in the end, Merlin had 2009 Ksyrium Elite at £360, same wheels as the 2010 at £440 as far as I can tell, low profile and 1550g.

Had a look at some hand-builts, Hope3 on Open Pro looked very nice and would have been £60 cheaper but 1750g…..am probably coming across as a bit of a weight queen but it really is going to be about big climbs for me so its an issue…..and the Ksyrium look nice.

Great wheel.
Great price.
Great choice.