My idle mind has been contemplating building a new commuter recently (even if my bank balance says 'not right now, eh'). Several things have come up on the forum lately which have steered me towards the possibility of specing something slightly different.

The base would be a Van Nicholas Amazon frame, included the optional split driveside dropout, to accommodate a Gates belt drive, and an EBB (I'd probably go further and add a disc tabe to run road BB7 discs). I like the idea of going down the Alfine route, but woudl hold fire for next years 11-speed version…. the problem comes with shifters. I want to run drop bars and road STI's. I know Sideways are selling 8-speed units http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/11/drop-bar-levers-for-shimano-alfine/, but is there/will there be anything equivalent for the 11-speed hubs? Ideally it would be a Shimano shifter, with the same ergonomics/cable routing as the current generation of road shifters because (sorry Tim) those Versa levers are fugly. Any thoughts?

You'll be lucky.

I'm also after the-moon-on-a-stick…. 😉

Seems logical to assume Versa will make an 11s version. Why not ask Tim?

It's not going to be a big enough market for other to bother I wouldn't have thought.

Any thoughts?

It's marketed as an off road hub. Shimano haven't produced a road shifter for the 8 speed, why would they develop one for the 11 speed?

And yes I know there are some weirdos who like their mtbs to have drops 😆

It's marketed as an off road hub. Shimano haven't produced a road shifter for the 8 speed, why would they develop one for the 11 speed?

That's true, but if the 'The Big S' (TM) see's a trend then they do develop stuff outside of the groupset ranges (see R600 compact chainsets when these were becoming popular). I agree, it's probably not on their radar yet….. but I'm struggly to get past the fugly-ness of those Versa shifters – barrel adjuster sticking out the side?!?! (Ah, and I realise the paradox of this statement, as the complete bike will have the looks of something only a mother – or father – could love!)

I am guessing that's an inline tension adjuster that could be placed anywhere along the cable run.

Campag?

Campag?

Will the cable pull per click be compatible? Might then be able to pick up one lever then – the other side could be a light weight SLR brake lever……

With campag, in theory, someone could make an aftermarket ratchet to fit their ergos with the right cable pull/indexing since they're rebuildable.

Hmmmm…… interesting stuff…..

Potentially a groovy set up. Can't see as you'd need a disk on the back, just little cantis would be more than adequate, and lighter. Hub gear already puts a fair weight to back of bike.

Agree that the barrel adjuster could just be moved.

I was wondering the same thing the other day, but was unaware until now of the versa shifters…

You could have the normal Alfine shifter mounted near the centre of the bar, or look into having a bar end shifter modified for the alfine, both quite fugly compromises…

I would guess that an 11 speed version of the versa will be along in due course, but I doubt it’ll be straight away, Alfine 11 is due September-ish? Can’t imagine they’d be flogging a road lever before April 2011 and that’s being optimistic…

On the plus side the Alfine 8 is pretty cheap now, in fact the hub can be picked up less than those levers…..

Would a stop gap 8 speed drivetrain be so bad until an 11 speed hub/shifter is available…

Also what is the OLN dimension on your Van nicholas? 130mm? alfine will be 135m surely…

Been running BB7 roads for a while (and bodged M525 for years before that). For absolute bomb-proofness/doesn't matter if your rim is dinged to hell/it will get you home pretty much no matter what, I'm defo not going back to calipers/canti's – but that's just personal preference I guess.

You probably need a perfect chain line for belt drive? The titanium frame would probably spring to 135mm, but getting the chain line spot on might be tricky.

I agree that 8speed would not be the end of the world.

I don't know what the alfine cable pull ratio or whatever it's called is, but a shiftmate could enable a campag 11 ergo to be used.

Van Nicholas sell complete bikes with the Gates belt and a Rohloff – the split frame is really for that – I agree, if I went any further I'd need to chat with them first to cover the finer points before putting down something north of £1000 for the frame. I have the previous incarnation of the Amazon (Airbourne Carpe Diem) and that is spaced at 132.5mm to allow either road or MTB hubs, so I presume the Amazon is the same.

I agree, 8 speed kit will be a "cheap" stop gap, but I like the extra spread of the 11-speed (~300% for Alfine 8 Spd, ~400% for 11 spd compared to ~500% for a Rohloff) as my commute is split roughly between a very hilly first half and a flat and fast second half.

I think I would want to do it with road shifters, rather than triggers, to free up bar space as a) it looks 'right' and b) the other half of the plan is to go for some of those mad B+M 'not legal on German roads' dyno lights running off of a Schmidt (or similar) disc/dyno front hub.

Yes – the potential cost of this thing is going up all the time. It's actually a good job it's not so simple 😉

I've built a road bike with Alfine and Versa 8 shifters. 8 speeds is enough on a road/commuter bike, but by comparison my 20mile commute takes 7- 10 minutes longer with a hub gear.

but by comparison my 20mile commute takes 7- 10 minutes longer with a hub gear.

How so? (genuinely interested in real world comments) Any pics? 😉

travel agent + bar end shifter on nexus 8 apparently it is possible…

Can't believe the gear system makes so much difference – what else is different between the bikes? Less aero efficient/taller position?

Apparently the alfine/nexus hubs have a tad more drag…

This is the thing – the goal is to build something as simple/maintenance free/self contained as possible. Clearly, the Alfine hub, the dynamo hub, discs, etc etc are going to add a bit of bulk (which I can live with, or mitigate as much as possible elsewhere in the build), but I figured there must be a downside somewhere as everyone would be doing it. Again, I can trade a bit of drag for the simplicity, but 10 mins in 20 miles sounds a bit tooooooo much.

That's more than a tad. That kind of difference is usually wind resistance related – clothing, luggage, position being the biggest factors.

It is drag, But aero drag, not drive train friction?

but by comparison my 20mile commute takes 7- 10 minutes longer with a hub gear.

Is it drag or is not having a tall enough gear to get the same speed?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47783930@N03/4382026538/

I'm comparing my times from my old bike – this project came about after being run over on the way to work. Apart from the hub, this bike has much quicker tyres on it. as a result the drag has more or less equalled itself out. Basically, having a hub gear is like riding with heavier puncture resistant tyres on. I might be slightly less fit after the crash though.

Ooooo – I like that. Very understated. Chapeau!

Mr H – is that Schmidt or Shimano front hub?
I'm about to acquire a similar build on a Singular Peregrine.

missed this the other week. if there is significant drag in Mr. H's setup then i can only assume the hub is pretty new?
IME they free up significantly after only a short while. i have one on an inbred – probably only done 100 miles or so, but when you spin the wheel it appears to run very freely now, compared to when new.

Just got home from work. The hub has now done 500 miles. Even from new, compared to my Rohloff on the MTB, the alfine runs freely when the wheel's spun. The Rohloff doesn't but Rohloff say this is caused by the seals on their hubs, and it's not meant to effect overall efficiency – I don't think the two can be compared this way. 20 mile flattish commute takes 1 hr 10 with no wind. Admittedly it's not the most aero dynamic bike, especially with the leather mud flap which is the size of a baseball glove. And yes it is a schmidt hub. The versa 8 levers are excellent by the way. The Alfine 11 could be a real rohloff killer if it comes with QR. The shifting is much easier and smoother on the alfine.